D&D 4E 4E Essentials Modern

[dirklancer]

Yeah, this is a tricky one. I was thinking the increase in ammo would be one drawback, since you will empty your clip sooner, but not everyone will both to keep track of things like that. In our last 4E D&D campaign, I don't think we ever worried about keeping track of arrows or throwing daggers. I think if I add them as a weapon property, the bonuses from using them will be small so that they are not unbalancing. Kind of like how Versatile weapons give you a small damage bonus if you use them two-handed. Maybe something like a +1 damage bonus for burst fire and you use 5 ammo per use, and a +2 damage bonus for autofire and you use 10 ammo per shot. Not realistic, but if I was going for realistic I would just use a different gaming system. :^)
And for shotguns, maybe just give it a bonus to hit to represent the wider area of spread.
I did actually change one of the soldier's powers to reflect the need to use a weapon with autofire. I may actually change another one to have the same prerequisite.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Scratch that... I went back to your post early on and see what you meant. I have it in there as an at-will for a career called the Negotiator, which is your expert at diplomacy. That career is Charisma based and has an at-will called "Inspirational Presence," which I have the name for but I haven't gotten to that career yet to work out the details. In the end I tried to keep the Charismatic core class a bit more general so it applies to your bolstering types and your slimy weasel types. But I did make note of it and was working it in. Hopefully that will pull you back in because I welcome suggestions to make this work.

As you probably noted in my earlier posts about the Martial Artist, I really appreciated the flexibility of d20 Modern's core classes.

One of the things I liked about the Charismatic class was, as you mentioned, you could be slimy or bolstering. The Inspiration talent could be used by a mob boss, a military officer, a cult leader, etc. But I don't think a lot of those example careers (such as the military officer) could be represented by the Negotiator.

 

[dirklancer]

I am using the Negotiator as the general leader and motivator, so that is why I put the inspiration powers in there. I looked at it again, and there are actually two: an at-will and a utility that will have different effects. I could see it working for an officer, but I actually had notes on a separate officer as a different career because I see it having a few specific combat powers as a member of the military, and the Negotiator has more bolstering powers.
As for the mob boss or a cult leader, I think they would be the career that focuses more on Intimidation as a focus. Mob bosses don't really inspire their subordinates as much as they browbeat them and prove they are tougher to motivate them. Cult leaders break down their followers and brainwash them into action, but there could be some kind of inspiration power there as well.
If you go back and see where I posted the first draft of the Charismatic and the Con Artist, maybe you can offer some suggestions because I am still on the fence on how they panned out. But personally I see inspiration as more of a career focus then one for the general Charismatic. I'm not sure what I have in there is generic enough, but that is where I am going for this project.

 

[dirklancer]

Here is my first draft for the Dedicated (wisdom) core class and the Medic career.

 

[dirklancer]

I was thinking some more about what you said, Psi, and looking over the Charismatic build I had I tried to make some changes. I realized the method and source of the inspiration is not as important as the effect, so I made a version of the original d20 talent as the special ability. I also tweaked the powers a bit, because when I thought about it I didn't want the Charismatic class to have any powers that cause direct damage. Let me know what you think.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I could see it working for an officer, but I actually had notes on a separate officer as a different career because I see it having a few specific combat powers as a member of the military

What about a police officer who commands cops in combat? A biker gang leader with savage charisma? One of the things I appreciated about Modern was there was no need for classes for everything. All those classes could be represented with a dose of Charismatic.

and the Negotiator has more bolstering powers.

There's something to be said about bolstering troops in combat. For instance, if you're being pinned down by fire, sometimes the best solution is to rush forward and shoot the bad guys, rather than hide under cover. If Modern had a good pinned gunfire system (it doesn't), a Will save to rush forward and shoot back would be appropriate. But most characters (including physical soldiers, like a Tough/Soldier or something like that) would likely have poor Will saves. Inspiration to the rescue; it gave save bonuses too! (And said soldier need not be an officer, they could be a sergeant or other NCO.)

As for the mob boss or a cult leader, I think they would be the career that focuses more on Intimidation as a focus. Mob bosses don't really inspire their subordinates as much as they browbeat them and prove they are tougher to motivate them.

D20 Modern is a cinematic system. It makes putting on a headband and using Flying Kick as useful in combat as shootin' them up. A boss should be able to contribute in combat in some manner, and I don't think just looking cool and being threatening is enough. (That was also covered by Frightful Prescence.) Some mob bosses (I'm not talking top bosses here) could and did lead their troops in combat. Lucky Luciano did so before he became the head of the Gambino crime family.

I guess I'm saying I don't think it's necessary to try to make a class for gang leader and cult leader and X leader and Y leader; if you give the Charismatic class the tools it's supposed to have, the more flexible system can handle almost any PC or NPC type the player or GM cares to draw up.

Cult leaders break down their followers and brainwash them into action, but there could be some kind of inspiration power there as well.

For an adventure I ran which took place in the Middle East, one group of bad guys were called "cultists". Naturally any GM modifies an adventure they run. I "promoted" these cultists to heroes and gave them the Faith talent. I also replaced one from each group with a leader who had Inspiration (and also Faith) but generally weaker combat stats. Both NPC types had pretty lame attack bonuses, being not optimized, but between Inspiration and Faith they were scary dangerous. I suppose these "cultist leaders" were combat chanters, or maybe you had a very specific definition of cult leader. In any event, these guys were definitely combat leaders... and they were not competent military tacticians, so I don't think any kind of military officer class would apply.

If you go back and see where I posted the first draft of the Charismatic and the Con Artist, maybe you can offer some suggestions because I am still on the fence on how they panned out. But personally I see inspiration as more of a career focus then one for the general Charismatic. I'm not sure what I have in there is generic enough, but that is where I am going for this project.

I downloaded the .doc. I don't know what general power level you're looking for compared to 4e DnD, but the Inspiration talent itself seemed pretty weak. It's an encounter ability that only gives +1/+1 for a single round, and that's all the inspiration you can give out per encounter. There are cleric at-wills that are as powerful as that, or to look at it another way, the warlord's buffing encounter powers come with damage, but since the Charismatic is not a fighter, the buff has to "make up" for that. (The abilities that allow dazing opponents are much more reasonable, for instance.)

I would suggest making Inspiration a power (one that you can choose, rather than having it a generic class ability). A Charismatic con artist might not find Inspiration useful at all (unless they're a leader-type too like Nate Ford, and even then I don't think I've ever seen him lead anyone in combat). A biker gang leader, on the other hand, would find that much more useful. I would also suggest either giving it a bonus worthy of an encounter power or making it an at-will.

A more combat-leader-esque class might have an ability like "Fire On My Laser!" which would be the ranged equivalent of the "Lead from the Front" ability the hobgoblin commander has. (That trait gives allies +2 to hit and damage on anything the commander hits in combat.)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Personally I'd say the details of exact bonuses etc are probably best left for a later iteration. Some of the powers as presented are no doubt going to need to be tweaked, but if you worry too much about that early on you'll be doing it again and again as the design gets refined. Instead I'd try to nail down the general type of powers you want and what the mix should be to get the most out of the class design, and then refine each power.

I think one useful concept would be a matrix. Put Strong, Durable, etc on one axis and proposed classes on the other. Then fill in the matrix with an example of the archetype that combination could potentially represent. So maybe Nate Ford is Charismatic/Manipulator, and Biker Gang Leader is Strong/Manipulator or something like that. Obviously not all combinations are going to suggest an archetype, but then again once the classes are more refined they will suggest interesting uses.

 

[dirklancer]

I think there could be applications for Inspiration for a con artist, just a different motivation behind its use. I agree that the ability seemed a bit weak so I modified it a bit, but since I already have some powers in other areas that provide similar bonuses I am not worried about it as a separate power at this point. My goal now is to just make something that is in the spirit of the old d20 Modern but not a complete conversion. I have no problem with the original version and think it (and its spiritual successor Star Wars Saga) are excellent systems. But many of the players in my group like 4E, and my only goal here was to make something workable and to try and take away some of the inherent rigidity of 4E D&D. We were originally going to use another 4E modern system, but I just felt it was way to inflexible and overly complicated for my preferences. The only reason I am posting this stuff is in case people find something within it that they like and would like to use. If they don't like it or don't like some aspects of it, they are free to change and modify it as they need to. I know this is not perfect and doesn't have all the options the core classes from d20 Modern had, but again that was not my goal here.

 

[dirklancer]

Personally I'd say the details of exact bonuses etc are probably best left for a later iteration. Some of the powers as presented are no doubt going to need to be tweaked, but if you worry too much about that early on you'll be doing it again and again as the design gets refined. Instead I'd try to nail down the general type of powers you want and what the mix should be to get the most out of the class design, and then refine each power.

I think one useful concept would be a matrix. Put Strong, Durable, etc on one axis and proposed classes on the other. Then fill in the matrix with an example of the archetype that combination could potentially represent. So maybe Nate Ford is Charismatic/Manipulator, and Biker Gang Leader is Strong/Manipulator or something like that. Obviously not all combinations are going to suggest an archetype, but then again once the classes are more refined they will suggest interesting uses.

I think that's kind of what I am going for here. Even as I tweak it, nothing is going to be an exact fit for every character. But that holds true for basic D&D. I recall one of my players pointing out that the base fighter in 4E is so geared towards melee combat that you need to make a ranger instead. I think by using the Core class on one side and the career on the other, you have a little more control to make something that fits your idea better, and that you can change career and core as you progress gives you even more options.

 

[dirklancer]

I finally finished all the careers and tweaked things a bit, and I added some feats and started on the skills and the equipment. Here is the most current version of everything, so please let me know what you think.