D&D 4E 4E Halflings unrecognizable from Tolkien hobbits

[JohnSnow]

And since the LOTR movies, thanks to Gimli being Scottish (as portrayed by a Welshman, lol), it's kind of stuck.

Actually, I think that's largely a side-effect of Tolkien's dialogue. Gimli had a penchant for saying some distinctly "scottish" things, like "Aye." His speech is less...particular.

One might even gather that since Tolkien tended to model the Northern men (after whom the dwarves are said to model their speech) on those from the northern British isles - that is, the Scots. So, I think Mr. Rhys-Davies provided his interpretation of Gimli based on his reading of Tolkien's work.

 

[Nathan P. Mahney]

Actually, I think that's largely a side-effect of Tolkien's dialogue. Gimli had a penchant for saying some distinctly "scottish" things, like "Aye." His speech is less...particular.

One might even gather that since Tolkien tended to model the Northern men (after whom the dwarves are said to model their speech) on those from the northern British isles - that is, the Scots. So, I think Mr. Rhys-Davies provided his interpretation of Gimli based on his reading of Tolkien's work.

The first I remember of Scottish dwarves was from *wait for it*.....

Warcraft 2.

Those dwarves said some very Scottish-sounding things when you clicked on them, like 'Tilt one back with me Doug!'

 

[JohnSnow]

The first I remember of Scottish dwarves was from *wait for it*.....

Warcraft 2.

Those dwarves said some very Scottish-sounding things when you clicked on them, like 'Tilt one back with me Doug!'

That came out in 1996, IIRC.

What about Bruenor Battlehammer? He spoke with a Scots accent, and was introduced in R.A. Salvatore's Icewind Dale trilogy, specifically The Crystal Shard, which was published in 1988.

Further back, Raymond Feist had the dwarves in Magician (1982) speak with pretty strong Scottish accents.

Going back even further, I've heard there's a dwarf with an incredibly thick Scottish brogue in Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions. That came out in 1961, and D&D used it as a major source, so that may be the source.

And that's not counting any possibly celtic accent in Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

I doubt you can pin it to WoW. On the other hand, I know the guy who did the early story development for WoW, and I can fairly guess that he probably was familiar with D&D, Magician, and quite possibly even Three Hearts & Three Lions.

So I think it's all common source.

 

[pemerton]

I have two posible slightly different dwarven archetypes - Kurdes and others Caucasians (hardy, clannish and proud montain folks), and Tibetan and related cultures (the tibetans used to be a warlike and proud people, surprisingly, and some related minorities kept this - like the Gurkhas).

I'd add Montenegrans, at least some Afghans, and Homeric Greeks (as discussed in Finley's "THe World of Odysseus") to your list of proud (and warlike) mountain folk.

But I'm not sure that default D&D Dwarves represent them very well, because these mountain warriors do not tend towards the highly mechanical and heavy infantry Dwarven style. With some changes, however, they could - fewer heavy crossbows, less metal armour, more spears (which the 1st ed MM actually gave them) and more gift-exchanging. Is there any published D&D setting that treats Dwarves in this way?

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

The first I remember of Scottish dwarves was from *wait for it*.....

Warcraft 2.

Those dwarves said some very Scottish-sounding things when you clicked on them, like 'Tilt one back with me Doug!'

It was well before that. I remember aged unwashed fatbeards at the first convention I went to playing that cliche and that was in the 80's.

 

[Xethreau]

You know, I think I've decided that there are going to be three types of halfings in my 4e campaign worlds: olfin, hin, and hobbits.
Olfin are the halfings we see in the Races and Classes books. Hin are the 3e 'lightfoot' halfings, with all the moving around and such. Hobbits are much like the LotR race by the same name; these are the halflings that chose to settle down and make permanent settlements of their own. Mind, the later two are going to have some fluff readjustments to fit in 4e, as I want to stick to core for several things.

For instance, all halflings were once one society, the children of the moon goddess and the god of the wilds, who were adopted by the goddess of luck. The 'halflings' as they became known became too numerous for the rivers, so several set out in wagons and caravans (the name 'olfin' is the original name of the race, and though it has no good translation into the common language, it means something like 'orphans of the moonlit river,' and the name "hin" is derived from the halfling verb for "to go yonder"). Some of the caravaners settled down and made new homes (the name "hobbit" is derived from the Halfling onomatopoeia for the sound made when one sits down, and means literally "one who sits"). Eventually, the cultures split in three; they are still the same race, but they are recognized among the peoples of the world as three different nations. Olfin travel wherever there are rivers, hin travel from country to country as they feel is best, and hobbits rarely travel at all.

No matter what culture the halfling, they all have a attraction to the outdoors and the starry sky, and as such, all buildings (boats, carriages, and houses) made by a halfling will have at least two windows. Many enjoy games of luck and whit, even the more cozy natured ones. Very few halflings ever show fear for life or limb, though weter from bravery or foolishness is dependent on the individual. Even the most homely and settled down halfling feels the call of the wild in the deepest part of their soul, and have a special knack at all things they try that can only be discribed as 'luck.'


(I am not sure who I originally heard the names 'olfin' and 'hin' from for alternate racial names of Halflings, but I thank you and give credit to whoever claims it.)

 

[Wolfspider]

(I am not sure who I originally heard the names 'olfin' and 'hin' from for alternate racial names of Halflings, but I thank you and give credit to whoever claims it.)

"Olven" is the word that elves in the World of Greyhawk setting use to refer to their own race. Similarly, "hin" is the word halfings use to refer to themselves.

 

[Nathan P. Mahney]

That came out in 1996, IIRC.

What about Bruenor Battlehammer? He spoke with a Scots accent, and was introduced in R.A. Salvatore's Icewind Dale trilogy, specifically The Crystal Shard, which was published in 1988.

Further back, Raymond Feist had the dwarves in Magician (1982) speak with pretty strong Scottish accents.

Going back even further, I've heard there's a dwarf with an incredibly thick Scottish brogue in Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions. That came out in 1961, and D&D used it as a major source, so that may be the source.

And that's not counting any possibly celtic accent in Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

I doubt you can pin it to WoW. On the other hand, I know the guy who did the early story development for WoW, and I can fairly guess that he probably was familiar with D&D, Magician, and quite possibly even Three Hearts & Three Lions.

So I think it's all common source.

Fair enough, but I think it's hard to definitely attribute a basically sound-based quality like an accent to a soundless medium like the novel. Certainly that's how it may have filtered into gamer culture through those sources, but if I was to try and pin down one sound-using source that really popularised the cliche I'd go with Warcraft. Or possibly another earlier computer game. Unless there's an earlier fantasy film out their with Scottish dwarves?

 

[tsadkiel]

Having just read through the halfling entry in R&C - they're a small, frequently underestimated people with a strong sense of community, and they've survived, while empires rise and fall, by staying out of the way. Sounds hobbity enough to me.

 

[Dire Bare]

That's good, because they're not.

In fact, in many ways, Tasslehoff is atypical of a kender. For another classic kender example, I would refer you to the freedom fighter Kronn Thistleknot, introduced in Dragonlance module DL12 way back in 1985 as a pregenerated hero.

Kender are not all Tas-clones. We've made every effort to provide, in our 3e products for DL, sufficient evidence to that end, and I can only assume that the people who are playing their kender just like Tas (or just like they think Tas is) are choosing to do so on their own, not because the rules make them.

Cheers,
Cam

I think he was referring to the novels, not the game products. A lot of kender in the DL novels ARE Tas clones, and it gets annoying. I love Tas, and I love the newer character Nightshade, but I can't think of any other kender in the novels that didn't make my teeth itch.