4e Has Less Raw Content: Fact!

[JoeGKushner]

One of the things I see some people noting about 4e is that it simply has less starting content based on the four core books.

Having done some work on just doing a conversion of an adventure, I'm forced to agree as elementals, metallic dragons, animated objects, and a host of other utility monsters are just plain out missing. It's like they said, "Hell, for levels 1-3, it's just gobos, kobods and some other minor beasties." This is despite the reduced word count needed on these monsters.

The DMG is massively shrunk from it's previous edition. Ditto for the Monster Manual. It's just smaller.

The Forgotten Realms book is far far far smaller in terms of text per page and layout styling result in a book that probably cost two to three times per word as the old one.

Now if I'm wrong and it can be proven I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Having done some page comparrissions between the two FR books though... unless there is some real layout magic going on elsewhere, I'm not wrong.

Mind you I don't think it's a fatal flaw for the game and I'm enjoying running it, but sometimes you look around and see the defiance of the factual statement that 4e has less material than 3e in terms of core product and well, like being baqffled that people can't role play in 4e, I am once again baffled.

 

[I'm A Banana]

"All Killer, No Filler!"

"They only cut the useless simulationist crap."

"How many players actually USE those wacky monsters anyway?!"

"A better system means there's less to explain so they don't need more space!"

"At least it doesn't read like a textbook!"

"Anything that's missing is a breeze to add!"

...did I miss any?

 

[BeauNiddle]

The question is not "Does 4th ed have less content?" the question is "Is 4th ed MISSING any content?"

Are 'elementals, metallic dragons, animated objects, and a host of other utility monsters' important elements of the game or are they just useful extras? Does 4th ed allow you to create them if you need them?

Nobody denies the reduced word count

 

[Shroomy]

For me, it comes down to quality versus quantity, as well as readability. Overall, I'm quite pleased with the content of the 4e books released so far. Do I wish that some of the material that was left out was included? Hell yes I do, even though most of it will likely be released in the PHB2 and MM2, but what we got is perfectly usable, and someone would have to pry the warlord, warlock, and eladrin out of my cold, dead hands (I'm more flexible with the dragonborn and tiefling, but I do like them). As for the layout and font size...thank god, since my eyes are getting worse as I get older, (and as I stare at a computer for longer and longer periods of time) and tiny text and darker pages really started to get annoying (so don't get me started on the FR sourcebooks).

 

[La Bete]

Quite true.

But Raw =/= Usable.

 

[Imaro]

The question is not "Does 4th ed have less content?" the question is "Is 4th ed MISSING any content?"

Are 'elementals, metallic dragons, animated objects, and a host of other utility monsters' important elements of the game or are they just useful extras? Does 4th ed allow you to create them if you need them?

Nobody denies the reduced word count

I think a better way of looking at it is, did I get the same amount of "useful extras" as I did in the last iteration of the game for a comparable price. Most of the inflation calculators I've used say that the $29.99 price of 3.5 is comparable (or a little less) than the $34.95 price tag the books have now. However with a more streamlined system, I honestly expected to get more per book for a comparable price than less. It just didn't happen that way. So yeah I totally agree with you Joe.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think a better way of looking at it is, did I get the same amount of "useful extras" as I did in the last iteration of the game for a comparable price. Most of the inflation calculators I've used say that the $29.99 price of 3.5 is comparable (or a little less) than the $34.95 price tag the books have now. However with a more streamlined system, I honestly expected to get more per book for a comparable price than less. It just didn't happen that way. So yeah I totally agree with you Joe.

Your inflation calculators are far more generous than any I'd use due to the massively reduced page counts on the MM and DMG. Now against the 3.0 books which had reduced page counts as well... but then you get the $19.95 PHB....

But I see what you're saying Imaro. If it was the same amount of content, even if that content was different (after all, we do have some neat monsters in the core MM that came later), the price difference could be explained away as merely inflation.

The other part that makes me smirk a little is when people talk about how easy it will be to add this material.

Yeah, it's so easy that WoTC is counting on people buying all core books with 2, 3, 4, etc... at the end of them to get back frost giants, certain types of golems, half-orcs, etc...

 

[The Little Raven]

Most of the inflation calculators I've used say that the $29.99 price of 3.5 is comparable (or a little less) than the $34.95 price tag the books have now.

While inflation calculators are nice, they don't factor in details that affect specific industries, only general inflation. For example, the price of paper has been steadily rising over the past few years, but no inflation calculator will factor that into the increased cost of published products, unless there's a publishing industry specific calculator out there I don't know about.

 

[Shroomy]

I bought my box-set from Amazon, so its hard for me to get worked up over the price differentiation,

 

[JoeGKushner]

While inflation calculators are nice, they don't factor in details that affect specific industries, only general inflation. For example, the price of paper has been steadily rising over the past few years, but no inflation calculator will factor that into the increased cost of published products, unless there's a publishing industry specific calculator out there I don't know about.

Or outsourcing to China via the DM Screen, tiles, and miniatures!