D&D 4E 4e Healing as Plot Device

[rob626]

Crazy Jerome- this is exactly what I envisioned as an end-state for the story line where the players decide to help the god of death and thwart the god of healing.

 

[Kishin]

From the perspective of the PCs, the six hour healing doesn't bother me; it just formalizes the way the game always worked, whether due to clerics or wands. What bugs me is what it implies about the day-to-day life of the world. I have this problem in 3e; I've got a small town with a 3rd level cleric, pretty typical, and said town has a hospital, and it occurs to me it's next to useless -- anyone wounded and not dead, the cleric can heal. (Disease is another issue) While in times of war, there might be more than 2 or 3 severe injuries a day, this isn't the case for normal life. Anyone breaks their leg, has an accident with an automated rice picker, or whatever, and poof! Good as new!

In 4e, you don't even need a cleric. Just not to die.

At this point, i'm tempted to say that 'healing surges' are something only a rare few people with special gut, grits, and determination have (PCs and 'named' foes), and use level/HP/day healing as the standard for the lumpen masses.

Why does it have to work this way? I don't see the need for this rule to effect daily life. Just severe injuries to said background individuals as you would in reality/driven by the needs of the story.

I think you're trying too hard to ascribe realistic trappings to a mechanic designed for gameplay.

You don't need to 'midichloriianize' the existence of healing surges, and Hit Points are still, as was said earlier in the thread, an abstraction.

 

[FadedC]

At this point, i'm tempted to say that 'healing surges' are something only a rare few people with special gut, grits, and determination have (PCs and 'named' foes), and use level/HP/day healing as the standard for the lumpen masses.

Actually I suspect that's pretty much how it works. You will notice that NPCs don't get healing surges....not even important creatures like the dragon and the pit fiend have them. Most peasants and non combatants are probably classified as minions too so they will die in a single hit. If anything I'd say the survivability of the average peasant or commoner is far less in 4e. Hospitals are uselss not because of their ability to heal, but because of their inability to survive anything that might require healing.

 

[Jhaelen]

At this point, i'm tempted to say that 'healing surges' are something only a rare few people with special gut, grits, and determination have (PCs and 'named' foes), and use level/HP/day healing as the standard for the lumpen masses.

Actually, I thought that was a given. Since monsters don't get healing surges, npcs won't either. Only the heroes, which are special get them (and maybe a couple of important villains...).

 

[DreamChaser]

This was less an idea about how hitpoints are abstractions and more of an idea on how those that are having trouble with the hitpoints as abstraction can deal with the apparent contradictions between heal overnight and hp as wounds concepts.

My only point, which I won't belabor, is that this thread appears to be proffering a solution for a problem that does not exist. If HP loss =/= bodily harm, then rapid HP recover =/= rapid bodily healing. If there is no rapid bodily healing, we do not need a mechanic, plot device or otherwise, to account for rapid bodily healing. (any more than we need a mechanic for imaginary, intangible, invisible turtles taking up metaphorical space in the middle of a room).

DC

 

[fafhrd]

My only point, which I won't belabor, is that this thread appears to be proffering a solution for a problem that does not exist. If HP loss =/= bodily harm, then rapid HP recover =/= rapid bodily healing. If there is no rapid bodily healing, we do not need a mechanic, plot device or otherwise, to account for rapid bodily healing. (any more than we need a mechanic for imaginary, intangible, invisible turtles taking up metaphorical space in the middle of a room).

DC

It works for you. Some DMs enjoy describing horrific wounds done to PCs by the antagonists. For them, your interpretation may be less effective.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

It works for you. Some DMs enjoy describing horrific wounds done to PCs by the antagonists. For them, your interpretation may be less effective.

Additionally, in 3e at least, there are several mechanics which simply don't work unless hp loss is physical damage (in at least those cases). After a battle where those mechanics have been heavily in play, you can sing "la la there isn't any physical damage" all you want but it will make even less sense than usual.

 

[Aloïsius]

Let's all repeat this together...

"HP loss does not equal physical damage"

Good. and again...

"HP loss does not equal physical damage"

Great. I think we've got it.

And since HP loss does not equal physical damage (see above), healing completely after 6 hours is not some amazing miracle of the gods of healing: it is the benefit of resting a tired body and mind.

"But teacher! What about 'bloodied?' Isn't that proof that HP loss IS equal to physical damage?"

Great question. Actually it is proof of the opposite. If all HP loss was physical damage, having a bloodied condition would make no sense because any HP loss would cause you to be blooded. Instead, this shows that by the time you are at about 50% HP, you've dodged and parried enough that are tired and have probably gotten a bloody nose or cut on your arm or other minor (but obvious) injury. This injury spurs on some blood thirsty creatures (like tieflings) but has little effect beyond that.

So, again, HP loss is not equal to physical damage and so non-magical healing surges and the restorative benefits of a night's rest make perfect sense.

Class dismissed.

DC

Nope. This is always the same answer, and it still does not hold water :

Character fall 120 feet, lose all HP but 1. Not physical damage ?
Character is burned by fireball, is dying but stabilize. Not physical damage ?
Character is at the receiving end of a critical hit with great axe. End uncounscious and dying. Not physical damage ?

HP loss do represent obvious physical damage. If not, it means that physical damage does not exist in D&D, because we don't have any other mechanic. So, we are stuck with HP. Of course, HP is more than just physical damage, but it includes physical damage.

Ergo, the 6 hours sleep = Heal (the old 6th level spell) is itching many players. Because it looks like real wounds don't exist in 4e, which is stupid, from a story point of view

 

[am181d]

Actually, I thought that was a given. Since monsters don't get healing surges, npcs won't either. Only the heroes, which are special get them (and maybe a couple of important villains...).

This is the correct answer.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Nope. This is always the same answer, and it still does not hold water

Let's not be crazy here - if someone repeats something three or more times in one post while taking on a condescending tone and referring to themselves as an authority figure, it must be so!