D&D 4E 4e Healing - Is This Right?

[hong]

You can certainly describe every battle like the fight between Hector and Achilles, but that removes the 'epic' feel of a truly difficult fight.

Nonsense.

When all fights are special, no fight is special. This was also a fight between two of the most skilled warriors in Greece. If every battle between the characters and a pack of goblins is a series of near misses, it starts to sound a bit silly after a while.

This is why 0 hit points means you no longer missed.

 

[Grog]

Except the strenuous activity prevents that character from getting above 1hp, therefore, they are seriously injured.

Except they don't have any problem at all performing the strenuous activity in the first place, therefore they aren't seriously injured.

Go to a hospital and ask an ER doctor how many victims of serious stab wounds are out running for miles and stacking concrete blocks the next day. The answer will prove instructive.

Additionally, a character at full hit points can't push a boulder uphill all day, every day for a month.

It was just an example. Substitute in whatever kind of backbreaking physical labor you feel like.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

So how many times do I have to explain it to you before you accept that it is a valid way of describing HP in ANY editon of D&D, and the only one that works well for what we know of 4th?

Well, honestly, I'll never accept that it's a rules-consistent way of describing damage in 1E, 2E, and 3E, since it's directly contradicted by those rules. I certainly accept that it's valid if by "valid" you mean "it works perfectly, if you ignore what the rules say, and are okay with PCs never suffering actual injury."

As far as whether it works in 4E ... I completely agree. That's how 4E HPs work. It's a change from previous editions, and it's a change that ends the possibility of "injured, but not dead." Which is exactly what I hate about it.

It is not supernatural or even fantastic to say that the skilled, heroic D&D combatant can roll with blows, take arrows to his armor, and scratches to his face, that do a certain amount of superficial damage, but nothing that won't be a scab, bruise, or minor puncture wound by the next day?

You really don't think it's "fantastic" that a 4E character can end up dead on the point of a sword, but can never end up with an injury that takes more than a day to heal? If so, okay ... we just have different definitions of "fantastic." And my problem is that while it's certainly fantastic, it's (as far as we know) not an explanation.

I've enjoyed this discussion, by the way, Jeff, and agree with the poster who complimented you.

As have I, Fitz, to this point, and you're largely responsible for that. Thank you.

But now that several posters have rejoined the fray who are content to ignore -- actually insistent upon ignoring -- the rules being quoted, and who can't accept that it's possible (since HP are abstracted) to be injured without suffering combat-math penalties, there's really no point in my continuing with it. KarinsDad has more patience (seriously, you have no idea how much my "patience" is a combination of acting and plunging a letter opener into my knee to avoid sharing my true feelings), and the willingness to dig out his 1E books to quote from, so I'm gonna wander off and leave him to cleave through the masses for as long as it continues to amuse him.

 

[Cadfan]

Begging the question.

What?

 

[Jon Wake]

Saying a 'nod to verisimilitude' is like saying 'almost flying'. Something models reality, or it doesn't. It it doesn't, it's not realistic, no matter how well its explained.

See, Jeff is sort of ignoring the elephant in the room. Answer one question:

Why does the 20th level character at 1 hp take longer to heal than the 1st level character at 1 hp?

Because if that doesn't 'break your suspension of disbelief' (which should be a banned phrase when you're playing a game where there are 100' tall bipeds who don't collapse under their own mass, not to mention, I don't know, MAGIC?), but healing overnight does?

You gotta play some games other than D&D. It's warped your mind.

I've played many fun, exciting games that model fictional reality fairly well. The Riddle of Steel has the best combat mechanics, wounding mechanics, and healing rules for a Conan-esque bloody battle. It does that because it is built to do that. It does not claim to do anything else. You won't fight hordes of undead. You will ambush enemies and beat them to death with your bare hands if you need to. Being a 'tough guy' doesn't mean you take more damage, it means you kill the other man better. It's built around 'realism'.

HarnMaster is THE simulationist RPG. Getting hit with a sword, or arrow, means you fail. You collapse, bleed a lot, get infections, and if you're a serious nasty mofo you recover in a month or two to get your revenge. I love that game. But it's not D&D.

For some bizarre reason, people want D&D to be all things to all people. It's not. Not "Well, I think it should." That's wonderful that you think that. You are wrong. 4E figured out exactly what it wanted to be: big, over the top Raiders of the Lost Ark with more swords action. It's high adventure. Epic battles. You are not a peasant who just picked up a sword one day. You are a freaking killing machine. You are made of twisted steel and sex appeal. You eat iron and crap nails. And thats at 1st level.

Stabbing you will just make you mad.

 

[Wormwood]

4E figured out exactly what it wanted to be: big, over the top Raiders of the Lost Ark with more swords action. It's high adventure. Epic battles. You are not a peasant who just picked up a sword one day. You are a freaking killing machine. You are made of twisted steel and sex appeal. You eat iron and crap nails. And thats at 1st level.

Stabbing you will just make you mad.

edit: suffice it to say, I really, really like your this statement. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

See, Jeff is sort of ignoring the elephant in the room. Answer one question:

Why does the 20th level character at 1 hp take longer to heal than the 1st level character at 1 hp?

He doesn't.

A 20th level fighter with 190 HP heals from 1 HP to full in 10 days.

a 1st level fighter with 11 HP heals from 1 HP to full in 10 days.

I think what's confusing you is that it's true that a 20th level fighter with 190 HP heals more slowly than a 20th level wizard with 110 HP. That's a flaw in the 3.5 model of hit point, injury, and healing that, despite improvements with 3.5, stretches back to 1E and 2E.

I think you might be hallucinating that elephant.

 

[Pale Jackal]

You are made of twisted steel and sex appeal.

Yeah, that was pretty awesome.

edit: suffice it to say, I really, really like your this statement. Let's leave it at that.

First response was better, but oh well. =)

 

[Pale Jackal]

He doesn't.

A 20th level fighter with 190 HP heals from 1 HP to full in 10 days.

a 1st level fighter with 11 HP heals from 1 HP to full in 10 days.

Cure spells?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

As have I, Fitz, to this point, and you're largely responsible for that. Thank you.

Thanks.

(seriously, you have no idea how much my "patience" is a combination of acting and plunging a letter opener into my knee to avoid sharing my true feelings)... so I'm gonna wander off.

I know what you mean.

'Later.
Fitz