D&D 4E 4E is the Right Direction for 5E

[AbdulAlhazred]

Here are the facts about the failure of 4th that should be addressed in the creation of the 5th.

The recipe that works is that D&D is for beginners and AD&D is for the experienced people. Don't gear the entire edition to one demographic.

There's no one 'recipe' that works. Nor do beginners have to play Basic D&D (I assume you refer to basic here). There hasn't been a Basic (or even similar) product on the market since the late 90's and that hasn't stopped D&D from selling plenty of stuff across 3 editions.

The people that play this game tend towards extreme creativity. It's probably not a good idea to mess with the multitude of options.

No, I don't think they're in any danger of getting rid of lots of options. You will certainly be able to PLAY with fewer options though.

Less complex rules are fine. Making everything feel the same to simplify the rules is not fine. (There will always be some complexity to the rules. Everyone should get used to that fact.)

Needless obtuse rules and rules that only work for a narrow set of player tastes however ARE a problem. That, in the opinion of many, was the issue with 3.x. It was far more complex than was required to make a good game. 4e was a LOT more streamlined and plays great.

Dramatic departures from Cannon will be unwelcome. Two worlds crashed together and a spell plague caused devastating problems to Toril. Eladrin (which are outsiders btw) are now magically a player race native to Toril and mysteriously somehow are a replacement of the Elves at least in part??? No thank you, I will continue to play in 1372 (Forever if I must.)

Speaking for myself I could care less about canon. I have old books for when I get nostalgic. I don't need them reprinted again. Frankly the last time I bought a campaign setting was in around 1982 anyhow. Can't say I see much reason for big changes to say FR or whatever, but I think it is really largely irrelevant to an edition of the rules. Notice, you CAN play in 1372 still. You can also call Eladrin "High Elves" if you wish and use 4e rules to play it. Nobody is going to care. It is after all your game.

 

[Zhang Liao]

There's no one 'recipe' that works. Nor do beginners have to play Basic D&D (I assume you refer to basic here). There hasn't been a Basic (or even similar) product on the market since the late 90's and that hasn't stopped D&D from selling plenty of stuff across 3 editions.


No, I don't think they're in any danger of getting rid of lots of options. You will certainly be able to PLAY with fewer options though.


Needless obtuse rules and rules that only work for a narrow set of player tastes however ARE a problem. That, in the opinion of many, was the issue with 3.x. It was far more complex than was required to make a good game. 4e was a LOT more streamlined and plays great.



Speaking for myself I could care less about canon. I have old books for when I get nostalgic. I don't need them reprinted again. Frankly the last time I bought a campaign setting was in around 1982 anyhow. Can't say I see much reason for big changes to say FR or whatever, but I think it is really largely irrelevant to an edition of the rules. Notice, you CAN play in 1372 still. You can also call Eladrin "High Elves" if you wish and use 4e rules to play it. Nobody is going to care. It is after all your game.

Never mind then 4e was perfect. Perhaps 5e should be canceled.

 

[D'karr]

Never mind then 4e was perfect. Perhaps 5e should be canceled.

Maybe.

 

[GreyICE]

Never mind then 4e was perfect. Perhaps 5e should be canceled.

Works for me.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Never mind then 4e was perfect. Perhaps 5e should be canceled.

No, actually that's one of the sore points. 4e is no more perfect than any other edition, but it has vast and easy potential. Given that it IS already a good game and can be improved a lot, easily, what's wrong with wanting to have 5e reflect those improvements instead of back to what needed improving in the first place (or other oddities). In fact I'm perfectly happy to see various things tried out as well. I just want to see that it is possible to play a game that has the many good attributes of 4e plus more goodness in 5e.

If the stated goal is to actually both incorporate innovations and allow many improved styles of play, then clearly there are a lot of us who will vote for the style we like and it really should be included. Nobody has any problem with anyone else's favorite way to play working well in 5e either.

 

[Zhang Liao]

My comment was sarcastic. In my humble opinion 3.5 was fantastic minus a few rules glitches. The circle I play in (22 people) and I couldn't stomach the switch to 4e so we just stuck with 3.5. 5th edition has us all hopeful that the game wont be geared towards Care Bears and Beanie Babies the way 4th was.

 

[wedgeski]

My comment was sarcastic. In my humble opinion 3.5 was fantastic minus a few rules glitches. The circle I play in (22 people) and I couldn't stomach the switch to 4e so we just stuck with 3.5. 5th edition has us all hopeful that the game wont be geared towards Care Bears and Beanie Babies the way 4th was.

Maybe the 4th Edition forum isn't the place for you, then.

 

[The Halfling]

My comment was sarcastic. In my humble opinion 3.5 was fantastic minus a few rules glitches. The circle I play in (22 people) and I couldn't stomach the switch to 4e so we just stuck with 3.5. 5th edition has us all hopeful that the game wont be geared towards Care Bears and Beanie Babies the way 4th was.

Care Bears and Beanie Babies??? How did you come to THAT conclusion???

 

[Neonchameleon]

Care Bears and Beanie Babies??? How did you come to THAT conclusion???

Just report the post and move on (I have). The mods should be along shortly and we don't need more of a derail. (And please, no one tell me I'm adding to the thread).

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

The 4e forum is for discussion of 4e. It is not for discussion of what D&D Next should or should not be. If you want to discuss what you want to see in the future, go to the New Horizons forum, please.

In addition, when you do so, please keep your comments to the level of constructive critique. Keep it short of bashing on a game, and definitely stop short of casting aspersions on the people that play the game.

Since this thread has gone off the rails, I'm closing it. Any questions, please take 'em to e-mail or PM with a moderator. Thanks, all.