4e Level 30 Magic Items. Who makes these things?

[Andor]

4e Level 30 Magic Items. Who makes these things?

Seriously. I don't mean from a "Who's powerful enough to craft this?" standpoint but from a purely economic one.

Let's consider the Holy Avenger. It only comes in 2 flavors +5 and +6. Now the +5 version costs 625,000 gp. That's a lot, I'm going to guess and say that's about the net worth of your average county, but it's not obscene. The +6 Holy Avenger however costs 3,125,000gp. Who springs for that upgrade? If Joe Paladin wants to go from a +5 to a +6 Holy Avenger he needs to shell out 2.5 million gp. (Actually it's worse than that due to the 20% trade-in value, but let's pretend you can just pay the difference.)

Now for that same money Our Hero can outfit a Legion of 1st lvl Paladins with Dwarven Plate +1, A Flaming Sword +1, A Heavy Warhorse, 2 healing potions and have enough left over to spring for ale and whores for everyone.

Now who really thinks his God and Country are benefiting more from his getting an extra +1 than from having 1000 Paladins properly outfitted for duty?

 

[Obryn]

Seriously - why does it matter who made it?

(edit)

Also, do you think it's a fair assumption that the Enchant Item ritual represents the only way in which magic items are created? Or would it be fair to say that supernatural agencies, unearthly forces, gods, and the like could do so too?

-O

 

[Ycore Rixle]

I think this is just another case of the fact that 4e rules in no way simulate a world that is self-consistent. That doesn't mean that 4e is a bad game; it just means that it's a primarily a game and secondarily, at best, a world-simulator.

 

[Zsig]

Yeah, but firstly he'd need to find someone with enough money to exchange him his Astral Diamonds for Gold. Else I don't think he'd be able to.

 

[Kurotowa]

Well, first off, what country? Countries are hard to come by in the PoL setting. And if your PCs are at 30th level, they're usually up against threats that a thousand NPC warriors wouldn't slow for more than about three rounds.

As for found items, there's all sorts of reasons for those. Relics from heroes of the past, gifts from the gods to their followers, weapons from fallen empires now forgotten, lost leaves of beings from other planes. All sorts of great story hooks.

 

[Celtavian]

I think this is just another case of the fact that 4e rules in no way simulate a world that is self-consistent. That doesn't mean that 4e is a bad game; it just means that it's a primarily a game and secondarily, at best, a world-simulator.

I disagree. 4E has returned to the old way of DnD. That means the DM decides who makes these things. If the DM wants to write up an elaborate ritual for a player to make one or come up with a cool quest for the player to gain his enchanted Holy Sword such as "Seek the sword of Dathias, the Sword Saint of Torm. It is imbued with holy power given to him by Torm when Dathias prayed for the strength to defeat a demonic enemy."

In fantasy worlds do you see magic items being produced like an assembly line car factory? They are generally ancient and difficult to make requiring years of study or ancient artifacts of a forotten time.

4E is somewhat returning to those roots where the DM decides the history of a magic items if he deems it important. Yet they still include the ability to craft an item, they just made it far more difficult than it used to be. I for one like that. Magic items should be kept rare and interesting.

 

[Psion]

I think this is just another case of the fact that 4e rules in no way simulate a world that is self-consistent. That doesn't mean that 4e is a bad game; it just means that it's a primarily a game and secondarily, at best, a world-simulator.

I don't know about that, at least in the context of the OP. Let's say you had an F-22. How much would it cost to add, say, 10% to its flight speed? How many people could you hire for that much?

The only "not good" simulator displayed here (granted, there are several others not being discussed here) is the idea that one could walz up and trade in their avenger for a bit spiffier one at the magic wal-mart, or there's a legion of paladins standing by to be hired.

 

[thatdarnedbob]

Now who really thinks his God and Country are benefiting more from his getting an extra +1 than from having 1000 Paladins properly outfitted for duty?

Someone who fights monsters that could shred entire legions and fling their souls to hell. The kind of paladin who thinks that destroying the greatest evils in the world is a more deserving goal than protecting a nation from the lesser evils. This paladin, believing that he is the only one worthy of fighting true evil, falls further and further into pride and wrath before he is transformed into the kind of creature he has fought against. His sword falls to the depths of the earth, no longer wanted by its former master, where it waits for your player to find it and take it up to finish the war against evil a less perfect man started.

I'm sure you could find other backstories for level 30 items on your own; just remember that if a cost benefit decision to make one would make less sense than the alternative, you need a convincing reason for the creator to ignore 'common sense.'

 

[Andor]

I disagree. 4E has returned to the old way of DnD. That means the DM decides who makes these things. If the DM wants to write up an elaborate ritual for a player to make one or come up with a cool quest for the player to gain his enchanted Holy Sword such as "Seek the sword of Dathias, the Sword Saint of Torm. It is imbued with holy power given to him by Torm when Dathias prayed for the strength to defeat a demonic enemy."

In fantasy worlds do you see magic items being produced like an assembly line car factory? They are generally ancient and difficult to make requiring years of study or ancient artifacts of a forotten time.

4E is somewhat returning to those roots where the DM decides the history of a magic items if he deems it important. Yet they still include the ability to craft an item, they just made it far more difficult than it used to be. I for one like that. Magic items should be kept rare and interesting.

I dunno. Remember that you can buy a bow that once a day shoots an exploding napalm ball for about the same cash as a heavy warhorse. Now heavy warhorse are not tied to every hitching rail in town, but when was the last time the local Knight was stuck with a Mule 'cause he couldn't afford the $ for a Clydsdale. So it's not like magic items are really all that rare. Not everybody has one, but every thorpe should have at least one in the hands of the local protector.

It's only at the upper levels that you really have to wonder what was going through the head of whoever made the damm things. Is +6 Trollskin Elder Scale really worth 1 million gp more than +6 Hydra Elder Scale?

Incidently county <> country.

 

[Andor]

I'm sure you could find other backstories for level 30 items on your own; just remember that if a cost benefit decision to make one would make less sense than the alternative, you need a convincing reason for the creator to ignore 'common sense.'

True. I realize that economic stupidity is a D&D tradition but I'm scratching my head over why that's the sacred cow they decided to run with.