D&D 4E 4E Liker - anything you worry about?

[Chimera]

I worry that oddball races are becoming so common in the game that I will never again be able to run a game with a limited number of races. It was already a problem in 3e, where I ran a game where Orcs were The Enemy, and so half-orcs were extremely unpopular with the NPC public. But of course, there were always those people who expected to play one with no social consequences. So how can I possibly handle the same thing - have a racially charged world - when every Tomunchkin and JoeMinMax wants to play a Dragonborn (Dragons being EVIL (slavers) in my world) or Tiefling (again, Evvvvvuuuuullll!) but at the same time, insists on playing them like they're no different from the human down the block?

Of course, that's always been my problem with all the different races since I started playing with the White Box Set. People who want another race for the bonuses or abilities, but their character is just another *Human* with a different name.

People who want to play Sauron Deathblade Doomkiller, the Half-Troll, Half-Dragon Assassin/Warlock....but whine to the heavens if for some reason, the citizens of the local HUMAN town are even slightly distrustful of them.

 

[DandD]

I worry that oddball races are becoming so common in the game that I will never again be able to run a game with a limited number of races. It was already a problem in 3e, where I ran a game where Orcs were The Enemy, and so half-orcs were extremely unpopular with the NPC public. But of course, there were always those people who expected to play one with no social consequences. So how can I possibly handle the same thing - have a racially charged world - when every Tomunchkin and JoeMinMax wants to play a Dragonborn (Dragons being EVIL (slavers) in my world) or Tiefling (again, Evvvvvuuuuullll!) but at the same time, insists on playing them like they're no different from the human down the block?

Of course, that's always been my problem with all the different races since I started playing with the White Box Set. People who want another race for the bonuses or abilities, but their character is just another *Human* with a different name.

People who want to play Sauron Deathblade Doomkiller, the Half-Troll, Half-Dragon Assassin/Warlock....but whine to the heavens if for some reason, the citizens of the local HUMAN town are even slightly distrustful of them.

Then how about making other evil races? Instead of Orcs, take Gnolls. Orcs are just brutish mercenaries, but they get along somehow with humans. Gnolls on the other hand are all demon-worshippers and defile everything for the sheer sake of it. Instead of Trolls and Dragons, the people are afraid of Fomorians and Devils, because dragons are just big lizards, and trolls are dimwitted giant humanoids, who get the butt of the jocks, because of their small brain, whereas Fomorians are insane paranoid conquerors from the wicked Feydark, and Devils are... well, they're evil incarnate, what else is there to add?

Of course, the alternative would simply be to talk with the players and seek a compromise. But if they absolutely want to play something you consider a problem race, but don't want to have social problems with it, and you yourself are unable to deny them playing such (which I would rather consider to be a sign of upcoming problem, if players and gamemaster can't agree on mutual rules for the fun of both sides, but whatever), then there's still tons of choices for you to take. There are literally bajillions of monsters who nearly fill the same roles that you might normally use for.

But as I said, rather talk to them and seek a fair balance. It helps tremendously.

 

[Pale Jackal]

People who want another race for the bonuses or abilities, but their character is just another *Human* with a different name.

Give them the race's stats, but they're human. As long as it's not too extreme and/or involves fire-breathing, you should be fine. If the stats themselves are a problem, then you shouldn't be allowing the race.

I understand wanting a racially charged world, and thereby wanting to "force" someone to be race X if they want the stats that come with it, but really: you need players who are going to work with you on that, otherwise you've got the humans in funny suits problem. Not that "humans in funny suits" is necessarily bad, of course.

Also, you can always talk to your players if the "dwarf stats, but human" solution doesn't work for you, and say: "There will be consequences... like friendly neighborhood lynchings." Hopefully they're okay with that, or honest, or reasonable, but you're playing with them, so that's your problem if they aren't.

 

[Lanefan]

In my new campaign, right in the game introduction it says words to the effect of "playing a non-human may present a severe challenge in terms of acceptance in society". Then, if someone wants to play one anyway, they have been warned.

I also said characters at the start had to be Human, but as they've got into non-Human lands already that restriction is gone (as are most of the starting characters, it's been a bloodbath so far...). So far, nobody's had a problem with it, and the two Elves that have since shown up have given me some fine plot fodder for later use.

Lanefan

 

[hong]

I worry that oddball races are becoming so common in the game that I will never again be able to run a game with a limited number of races. It was already a problem in 3e, where I ran a game where Orcs were The Enemy, and so half-orcs were extremely unpopular with the NPC public. But of course, there were always those people who expected to play one with no social consequences. So how can I possibly handle the same thing - have a racially charged world - when every Tomunchkin and JoeMinMax wants to play a Dragonborn (Dragons being EVIL (slavers) in my world) or Tiefling (again, Evvvvvuuuuullll!) but at the same time, insists on playing them like they're no different from the human down the block?

Of course, that's always been my problem with all the different races since I started playing with the White Box Set. People who want another race for the bonuses or abilities, but their character is just another *Human* with a different name.

People who want to play Sauron Deathblade Doomkiller, the Half-Troll, Half-Dragon Assassin/Warlock....but whine to the heavens if for some reason, the citizens of the local HUMAN town are even slightly distrustful of them.

I don't see the problem. Just say "no orc PCs (or elves, or half-giants, or whatever) in my game".

 

[Hussar]

I don't see the problem. Just say "no orc PCs (or elves, or half-giants, or whatever) in my game".

Y'know, it's funny. Since I've been playing over OpenRPG, I've played with quite a few people, and all of them strangers. Complete hit and miss when it comes to personalities and playstyles. Yet, regardless of that, I've had exactly one player get annoyed when I limited races.

Must be lucky I guess.

 

[Ipissimus]

Fear: That Lawful and Chaotic won't be alignment axises except at the extremes (Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil).

Fear: Cursed magic items won't be in.

Concern: That multiclassing will only give you another class' powers and not class abilities. And that true, deep, multiclassing will be handled by new hybrid classes that aren't as effective in play as the two parent classes or so powerful that they overpower the core classes (though, that'd be going against history).

Concern: Rather than either multiple conditions will be hard to track or large combat will be hard to control, put both of them together and running a large combat (that seems to be the focus of 4E combat) with a multitude of different conditions, effects and abilities popping off on both sides will cause migraines, forgetfulness and calls for 'do-overs'. Also... say you have a party of 6 1st level PCs vs. 24 Kobald Minions. One Kobald gets hit with so many conditions over the course of the encounter that the stack of magnetic markers under him makes it look like he's either flying or on top of a pillar. And then you have to remember what each colour marker represents and what effect it has on him... guess you shouldn't have named him Pun-pun Meepo but still...

Concern: Rituals will be so cheap, easy and effective that everyone will take the Ritual Training feat and pop off divinations between encounters.

Dislike: I was very, very happy with the decision to merge some skills, particularly Move Silently/Hide to Stealth and Listen/Spot to Perception. I also perfectly understand why one would keep Diplomacy and Intimidate separate, since you might want to create a stock uncouth strongman or a witty but nonthreatening halfling rogue. But I'm afraid that Bluff and Diplomacy often cross swords at my table in the same way as Move Silently and Hide did. It gets particularly confusing when you're lying to someone and trying to improve their attitude to you at the same time. In addition, I'm afraid it nerfs the already suboptimal choice of playing a 'face' character in DnD since they have to buy 2 skills with their precious allotment where far more combat-centric powers (like Stealth) have been amalgamated.

 

[Dragonblade]

Give them the race's stats, but they're human. As long as it's not too extreme and/or involves fire-breathing, you should be fine. If the stats themselves are a problem, then you shouldn't be allowing the race.

This. I could not agree with you more.

 

[Simm]

Fear: Rituals will not be as powerful as they are somtimes made out to be. I've seen many threads in which someone bemoaning the loss of a utility power is told that they will bw able to do that with a ritual. I suspect that rituals will be of limited scope and really wish this won't the case.

 

[shadowguidex]

I don't see the problem. Just say "no orc PCs (or elves, or half-giants, or whatever) in my game".

My players already know that my Forgotten Realms campaign will not allow Eladrin, Tiefling, or Dragonborn. I want to stick to Humans, Halflings, Dwarves, Half-Elves, and Elves until I can personally introduce each of the new races into the game with the correct flavor and social structures.

In time, if someone dies and wants a new character, or we begin a new or second campaign, I will allow races that have been introduced.