D&D 4E 4E Liker - anything you worry about?

[The Human Target]

Are special abilities going to be too combat oriented?
DnD is an action/combat heavy game, and thats part of the fun. But is it going to far in that direction? Will a Rogue have an at will ability to pull off a cool use of a skill? Will a Ranger have a per encounter ability to flawlessly track an enemy? Can the Warlord spend a daily use of a power to Diplomacy his way completely past a minor encounter?

Are daily powers going to be as hit or miss as spells were in 3E?
Its cool that a fighter doesn't burn through his per day power if he misses. But what about everyone else? Will they miss out on a special ability working because of a single bad roll? And will that miss severely hamper the parties strength?

Is the saving throw is a little too simple?
A 50/50 chance of failure or success just seems at odds with the rest of the game. Shouldn't my high Con make it easier for my fighter to shrug off poison, and his low Wis make it harder to shake off the effects of a Charm spell?

Are Prayers/Spells/Exploits going to be dull and repetitive at higher levels?
Will they just add dice damage to attacks? Is their going to be a Greater Magic Missile at will power that functions exactly like magic missile and just does more damage? If so, why don't they just design powers to increase in potency so they stay viable at all levels? I want powers that increase options, not repeat for 30 levels.

Are monsters going to be really hard to power up and down to challenge different level parties?
Sure, adding 10 levels of Fighter or Monstrous Humanoid to a Kobold was kinda annoying in 3E. But I could do it, the same way that I could remove them from a Hill Giant. Am I going to have that kind of flexibility now?

Are Dragonborn, Tieflings and Eladrin going to be popular?
I'm not saying gnomes or half-orcs were amazing. But are the new races going to be popular and long lasting, or are we going to be sitting around in our virtual reality headsets playing 7th edition joking about how the Dragonborn went extinct in 5E?

Can I have make a Cleric who spent time in his youth on a sailing ship?
Okay, that was a little specific. But will I be able to mechanically add flavourful things to my characters? Or at least track them in some meaningful way?

Are classes too specialized?
Why does my fighter have to be assumed to wear heavy armor? Why can't my Rogue use his special powers with any weapon he is proficient with, instead of just shurikens or light blades? What if my Ranger doesn't want to have to a bow or two weapons?

Are Action Points going to suck?
An extra action is nice, sure. But is it nice enough to warrant an extra mechanic added on to the side of the game? Sure some games go too far with their action points (Thieves' World I'm looking at you.) But
wouldn't it be nice to have a few more options?

 

[Agamon]

fear: high level is still not my cup'o'tea...I guess that's less a fear and more reality

irrational fear: that somehow I just wont be able to avoid those top 10 levels...heh, kay just being silly now

fear: the database in the DDI will not separate it's data into books, like, say between the three core books I want to use, and the rest of the stuff that I don't

fear: my FLGS will make me swallow a live tarantula whole before selling me the books

 

[jeffh]

Has WotC removed a big part of the game's appeal by imposing roughly the same level of complexity on everyone?

In 3E, and even moreso in earlier editions, the number of choices you were faced with varied considerably with the class you chose. In "Red Box" D&D, for example (just because I'm getting a bit tired of 3E examples), a Fighter, Dwarf or Halfling made for a very simple and easy-to-learn game experience, a Thief a little less so, a Cleric less still (eventually as complicated as anyone but it eased you in slowly), and the real gearheads could go for a magic-user or maybe an elf. Basic D&D was, within limits, as simple or complex as you wanted it to be, I think it really broadened the game's appeal. (Same with 3E, though the minimum you needed to know was greater.)

Now it seems like everyone's got about the same level of complexity. At first level, regardless of class, you've got some skills, which vary a lot less from one character to another than in 3E or even Basic with the optional skill system in place; a few always-on abilities; two or three at-will powers to choose from, with the actual decision often being a no-brainer; a couple of encounter powers, often one from your class and one from your race, with making good use of these seeming to be your main decision point; and one big thing you can do per day. This is as true for a fighter as it is for a wizard; in fact, the wizard seemed like one of the less option-rich playtest characters in some respects. By putting everyone on roughly the same level as far as decision-making goes, it seems to me WotC risks alienating both the beer & pretzels players and the major gearheads by pushing everyone into the middle.

 

[Gundark]

Marking and condiitons- Hopefully they're not too complicated.

Powers- I hope they found the right number, too many and it'll slow down combat with "what do I choose?". Too few and then "I hit him...I hit him again...I hit him again...." Becomes "I cleave....I cleave again...I cleave again...."

Combat- Combat really isn't shorter....I'm really hoping I like the trade off of more rounds.

NPCs- That NPC creation is still too time consuming.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Marking and condiitons- Hopefully they're not too complicated.

Powers- I hope they found the right number, too many and it'll slow down combat with "what do I choose?". Too few and then "I hit him...I hit him again...I hit him again...." Becomes "I cleave....I cleave again...I cleave again...."

These are pretty much my fears.

I suspect that there won't be so many powers as a mid-level 3.5 caster has. I do want stuff to be as different as, say, a fireball from a lightning bolt, at the very least.

I don't mind doing a battlemat, it's easy enough.

For conditions, I'm worried that there'll be just so many. There's only so much I can keep track of in terms of bonuses and penalties before it becomes boring.

Brad

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Fear: Complexity! What I've seen doesn't look as much simpler as I hoped, especially tracking status effect and bonuses.

Fear: Tedium! "I hit" has been the standard for 1st level fighters; with the slow increase in powers known, for how many levels will 4th ed characters have only a couple of combat options?

Fear: The Unknown! What horrors lurk in as-yet-unrevealed sections of the rules? Only The Designer knows...

 

[Iron Sky]

Has WotC removed a big part of the game's appeal by imposing roughly the same level of complexity on everyone?

In 3E, and even moreso in earlier editions, the number of choices you were faced with varied considerably with the class you chose. In "Red Box" D&D, for example (just because I'm getting a bit tired of 3E examples), a Fighter, Dwarf or Halfling made for a very simple and easy-to-learn game experience, a Thief a little less so, a Cleric less still (eventually as complicated as anyone but it eased you in slowly), and the real gearheads could go for a magic-user or maybe an elf. Basic D&D was, within limits, as simple or complex as you wanted it to be, I think it really broadened the game's appeal. (Same with 3E, though the minimum you needed to know was greater.)

Now it seems like everyone's got about the same level of complexity. ...By putting everyone on roughly the same level as far as decision-making goes, it seems to me WotC risks alienating both the beer & pretzels players and the major gearheads by pushing everyone into the middle.

Though, as a DM (and it seems many - if not most - who post here are) you never got to choose the level of complexity. For you, the game has always been complex as the most complex class/race/monster. I haven't actually played that much(only played in two long term campaigns in my 13 years of roleplaying and neither above level 8), so I don't how it will be for players, but as a DM now staring at the daunting level 10+ headaches of 3.5, I call the middleground looks like a breath of relief.

Having run games with "beer & pretzel" and "gearhead" players in the same game, I notice that, in spite of my best attempts as a DM to please both, one or the other group gets bored/frustrated. Gearheads getting bored because fights are too easy, "b&ps" frustrated at making their 3rd characters because the fight that finally challenged the "gearheads" killed the "b&ps" again.

Maybe other DMs are lucky enough to have groups composed of entirely one or the other, and maybe the change will be hard on the group, but I can't wait. (Though in my playtests, my prime "gearhead" didn't seem to like the levelling of the playfield - "b&ps" really liked it, other "gearhead" was a maybe).

 

[jeffh]

Oh, sped-up DM prep for high-level games is definitely a selling point. But this is the "anything you worry about?" thread, not the "anything make you want to kiss the designers on the lips?" thread.

 

[InShambles]

Fear: The Wizard, even though they are the Controller class in 4e, won’t be as great a controller as they are in previous editions. Right now I’m not feeling the class to be as good. Of course it is just wait and see right now. If the Wizard is good then everything about the new edition will be gravy.

I did find one rule mechanic I do not like that I was for earlier and that is the Defenses/Saves mechanic. Using the 4 Level Black Dragon as an example, if the dragon breaths acid on the party, the Dungeon Master has to roll against the defense of every person hit. This new mechanic will take time with big groups and will take the control of the dice out of the hands of the players. The player’s rolls only come into play if there are any on going effects (in this example there are, but may not be the case every time). Previously, the players would roll for their saves at the moment of the attack and put their fates in their hands as to what damage they would incur. Now the players just have to sit and wait.

 

[jeffh]

Fear: The Wizard, even though they are the Controller class in 4e, won’t be as great a controller as they are in previous editions. Right now I’m not feeling the class to be as good. Of course it is just wait and see right now. If the Wizard is good then everything about the new edition will be gravy.

I did find one rule mechanic I do not like that I was for earlier and that is the Defenses/Saves mechanic. Using the 4 Level Black Dragon as an example, if the dragon breaths acid on the party, the Dungeon Master has to roll against the defense of every person hit. This new mechanic will take time with big groups and will take the control of the dice out of the hands of the players. The player’s rolls only come into play if there are any on going effects (in this example there are, but may not be the case every time). Previously, the players would roll for their saves at the moment of the attack and put their fates in their hands as to what damage they would incur. Now the players just have to sit and wait.

You realize that "tak[ing] the control of the dice out of the hands of the players" makes, mathematically speaking, no difference at all, right?