D&D 4E 4e Magic system, speculations?

[The Ubbergeek]

The classes removed are not archetypal, really.

At the base, a barbarian is a berzerk fighter.

At the base, a druid is a shamanistic cleric of nature.

At the base, a monk is a mostly unarmed fighter with mystical powers.

And so on.

If what WOTC said is realised, really, a dm should be able to make from scratch what is needed and make most of such archetypes from what is base.

The barbarians, druids, etc players while have nice erzats, and perhaps prefer that to separate classes, really.

 

[Jack99]

But necromancer, nature mage, conjurer are fairly core concepts which one might expect in the core of a fantasy game.

Nature Mage? What is that? Which 1e/2e/3e/3.5 core book does it appear in? Hell, which DND book does it appear in?

 

[MaelStorm]

I'm not happy either that nature magic is not part of the initial launching, but that is not enough to stop me from wanting to try 4E. For those who can't accept this situation they can always continue playing D&D 3.5.

From my own personal experience, I always found that when I try something new, I have a better time if I have a low expectation. I also try to focus less on the hype and focus more on my own gutsy feelings. If I have a negative feeling, I just take more time before making a final decision.

 

[MaelStorm]

Nature Mage? What is that? Which 1e/2e/3e/3.5 core book does it appear in? Hell, which DND book does it appear in?

LOL, the druid. But they are more wildshapers now.

 

[Ahglock]

Nature Mage? What is that? Which 1e/2e/3e/3.5 core book does it appear in? Hell, which DND book does it appear in?

In case you were being serious and not a smart alleck, yes the Druid. I wasn't naming specific class but character concepts.

You don't even need the specific class for any of these, just enough in other classes to support the concept. If there are enough nature based spells to support a nature mage in one of the magic groups you are good, if there is enough conjuration and summoning style spells to support a summoner concept whether its a cleric, wizard, or warlock it doesn't matter, the concept was possible to make from the get go.

You don't need a class called berserker or a barbarian, you need abilites that let you make a guy who fights crazy and goes berserk.

These are all fairly solid archetypes that pretty much every fantasy game i have played has been able to deliver. If 4e is unable to deliver them at the get go it is a check in the negative column And for some its a really big check mark.

 

[kennew142]

Rumor has it there are no undead creation spells, and no summoning spells of any kind.
There goes all my fun...

As you said, rumor. It is likely that animate dead (et alia) are rituals instead of spells.

As for summoning, the Q&A with the designers (Slashdot) indicates that summoning will be available in the PHB (or another sourcebook). I'm still hoping for the PHB, although I will probably HR something similar to the Astral Construct power for my home game if necessary.

 

[glass]

Also, IIRC, it was specifically stated that spell levels were 1-25, not 1-30. I could have interpreted it wrong, though.

I'm pretty sure that they have said that spells (and powers generally) will have the same level as characters who can first take them (which implies 1-30), but they will not necessarily be filling in all the levels.

EDIT: Or, what John Snow said.


glass.

 

[AllisterH]

You know, I'm really not sure about that anymore. The change to a focus on "character builds" was enormous. I don't have an explanation that is clearly articulated enough... but I think 3E changed the game much more dramatically that it seemed at the time. Because I hadn't played 2E in years, and because they kept the flavor familiar, and because it seemed they were only adding rather than taking away, I don't think I noticed what a dramatic change it was.

.

The difference is that "character build" was all at 1st level. It was picking the right kit/specialty priest.

After that, it didn't matter what NWP or spell you picked up since your character was locked in from that point in time.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

The difference is that "character build" was all at 1st level. It was picking the right kit/specialty priest.

After that, it didn't matter what NWP or spell you picked up since your character was locked in from that point in time.

The difference as I see it was not only the timing of your selection of character options, but the magnitude of the impact of that selection. I'll grant you specialty priests -- they were so much weaker than the cleric that nobody ever played one unless the DM banned the cleric.

3E had options that produced a much greater disparity between two fighters than 2E's kits did. The impact of feats, the ease of multiclassing (especially for martial types), point-buy becoming the most common method, and new magic items that allowed for a much greater degree of optimization.

Certainly BECMI had very little in the way of optimization of your PC. You'd roll your stats, lower Int/Wis if you could to raise Str, pick up a sword, and set out. It probably will sound like I am either covering for that system's inadequacies or attacking 3E if I say "Different fighters were differentiated by their personalities and accomplishments, not by their abilities," but I mean it as a neutral observation. It's just a difference between BECMI and 3E, and there are strengths and weaknesses of each approach. (And, obviously, once you get into Weapon Mastery, BECMI allows more customization.)

 

[AllisterH]

The difference as I see it was not only the timing of your selection of character options, but the magnitude of the impact of that selection. I'll grant you specialty priests -- they were so much weaker than the cleric that nobody ever played one unless the DM banned the cleric.

)

???? WEAKER????

You're using the Complete Priest's Handbook guidelines/examples on specialty priests aren't you? I agree with this since those were somewhat weak sauce.

However, when I say Specialty Priest, I mean the original CODzillas from Faith & Avatars. Arguably the greatest 2E campaign specific supplement and one of the best D&D supplements period, it also spawned some of the STRONGEST character classes EVER.

Specialty Prest of Mystra FTW!!!!!