D&D 4E 4E: Manufactured Excitement

[Wormwood]

1) I wasn't comparing 3e to 4e or anything. Just saying that you'd be forming an opinion based on Who was in it, who's directing it, and what studio they're doing it for.

2) No, the way I see it, it's like X-Men or Spiderman where a new tidbit gets leaked and those steeped in the canon of the comics begin running around saying "WHAT, Rogue didn't absorb Marvel Girl's powers? THIS IS GUNNA SUCK!"

Real world example: the howls of outrage and fury that Spider-Man was rumored to have . . . *gasp* . . . "organic" web shooters!

NERD RAGE!

 

[Nebulous]

You know, when you make an original post that is blatantly insulting to some people (even if not those responding to you, either way it's unkind) and use such "clever" diction as "lemmings" and "sheep" and "fanboy" I really don't see how you can assume an intellectual "high ground" and critique people for not being substantive. You really could have made your point in the OP without getting rude, as Piratecat said. I don't think anyone here thinks you don't have a valid topic for discussion, but you did not approach it in a sufficiently respectful, level-headed manner as to then chide others for the tone of their replies. Seriously, reread your OP and ask yourself, is that the sort of language that makes someone sound completely serious, honest, and open to friendly debate?

I don't think the OP can be convinced that his post came off as aggressive and insulting.

As a result, I was using LOTS of 3rd-party supplements to get the flavor of game I wanted. Iron Heroes, Elements of Magic, True Sorcery and the like were getting more use at my table than the Player's Handbook. I liked the magic system and class balance in Midnight better than what was in the PHB.

Then, after getting Star Wars Saga Edition, I started to want a game that would play faster - the way it seems Saga will. But I still want to play fantasy more than I want to play Star Wars - it's more open-ended. So then I was starting to houserule my Iron Heroes game...

And while it still felt like D&D to me, quite honestly, something bugged me about the fact that I wasn't running "real" Dungeons & Dragons. Add that to the fact that I feel like I have to tinker extensively with the system to get something I enjoy...I was even writing my own magic system, for god's sake!

This is true for me as well. I couldn't play D&D the way I WANTED to play D&D until i either house-ruled or added 3rd party products. I'm hoping and praying that 4e bundles some of the best rules i've never even considered into the new edition. And change is good, and i've been wanting my D&D similar but different for a long, long time.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

M-O-O-N that spells greed.

 

[JohnSnow]

1) I wasn't comparing 3e to 4e or anything. Just saying that you'd be forming an opinion based on Who was in it, who's directing it, and what studio they're doing it for.

2) No, the way I see it, it's like X-Men or Spiderman where a new tidbit gets leaked and those steeped in the canon of the comics begin running around saying "WHAT, Rogue didn't absorb Marvel Girl's powers? She doesn't fly around? This utterly ruins X-Men! THIS IS GUNNA SUCK!"

[geek]
Rogue had absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers, not Marvel Girl's.
[/geek]

 

[Rechan]

Real world example: the howls of outrage and fury that Spider-Man was rumored to have . . . *gasp* . . . "organic" web shooters!

NERD RAGE!

I had considered editing my post for that one, but yeah.

Small, stylistic changes can be adapted while the essence remains.

Reminds me of my father, actually. He gets mad every time a new TV show/movie with vampires comes out, because the writers change "what effects a vampire". Over here in Buffy, vampires are demon-possessed corpses. Over there in John Carpenter's "Vampires", holy symbols or holy water doesn't work.

And I just shake my head, because both are blood sucking ex-humans who explode when exposed to sunlight, give the artist some re-interpreting wiggle room otherwise*.

*By this I don't mean "Any change should be accepted", but "Any change should be weighed on its own merits, as opposed to disliked because it is different". If vampires were suddenly effected by basil and exploded on contact to Ramen noodles, I wouldn't accept that.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Over there in John Carpenter's "Vampires", holy symbols or holy water doesn't work.

WORST. ADAPTATION. EVER.

Nerd rage!

 

[Wormwood]

And I just shake my head, because both are blood sucking ex-humans who explode when exposed to sunlight, give the artist some wiggle room otherwise.

But some 'fans' don't want artists to create or explore.

I want the 4e design team to get in there and design their hearts out. I want them to be artists and I want 4e to bear the stamp of their vision.

Which, to bring this back to the dismal topic at hand, is one more reason I am enthusiastic about the news coming out of WotC: they seem to agree with me.

 

[hazel monday]

1) I wasn't comparing 3e to 4e or anything. Just saying that you'd be forming an opinion based on Who was in it, who's directing it, and what studio they're doing it for.

2) No, the way I see it, it's like X-Men or Spiderman where a new tidbit gets leaked and those steeped in the canon of the comics begin running around saying "WHAT, Rogue didn't absorb Marvel Girl's powers? She doesn't fly around? This utterly ruins X-Men! THIS IS GUNNA SUCK!"

Well Rechan, just between us, geek to geek, Rogue absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers. Not Marvel Girl's powers. But I get your point.
For the record, I'm not convinced 4E is gonna suck. The thing of it is, the people who are saying how streamlined, and how great it is, and how much fun it's gonna be are the same ones that want me to buy the game and it's inevitable parade of supplements. That automatically makes me a little suspicious. And that suspicion makes me want to reserve judgement until I have the product in hand.
I'm a D&D player. I enjoy my time playing the game with my friends. I'm naturally inclined to like other gamers, even if we disagree on the minutia of the game itself. And from the way WOTC is handling their PR campaign, I have a nagging feeling that my fellow gamers and I are being hustled. I want 4E to be awesome as much as you or Wormwood, or Merric do. i'm just not as convinced as you guys are yet. I'd like to be. But the 4E designers are coming across more like used car salesmen than fellow gamers to me.
But I'm gonna try and ignore that suspicious feeling I get when I read designer blogs and check the game out and try to judge it on it's own merits. I'd hate to miss out on a potentially good game just because the designers don't know how to promote their own products to me.

 

[Wormwood]

If vampires were suddenly effected by basil and exploded on contact to Ramen noodles...

On its face, a ridiculous concept.

But in the hands of the right author?

 

[hazel monday]

To be completely fair there are a lot of people on the other end that are ...

Hmmm... How to place this into the analogy...

That are claiming 4e is worse than Highlander 2.

Or (for those that aren't familiar with the Highlander series) that 4e has already come to their home and killed their pet.

Both are very much extremes.

Couldn't agree more. Both extremes are knid of baseless in my opinion. But I still don't think there's anything wrong with a little healthy skepticism.