D&D 4E 4E: Manufactured Excitement

[Rykion]

Is it just me, or is anyone else out there a little perplexed by the wild excitement of the MerricB's on this board?

Nope. MerricB gets excited about D&D stuff. Some people I know get excited about sports or music. I don't go overboard on things, but to each their own. MerricB appears to be a genuinely optimistic and nice guy to me.

As gamers, and consumers, we know why they are doing this: again, to make money. It's not because our 3.5 games suddenly became unplayable. It's not because we were clamoring for 4E (the majority of gamers in most polls on this site didn't desire 4E for a number of years yet, if at all). It's not because WOTC really wants to make the game more fun for us; if their new release manages this, that's a bonus.

Actually, I think WotC does want to make a better game that most people will find more fun. Making money and pleasing your customers are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it's pretty hard to make money by not pleasing your customers. WotC isn't taking the earlier editions away from anyone that wants to continue playing them.

So, honestly, why is everyone getting so excited/crazy about this?

They aren't. Some people are and some people aren't.

Isn't it, well, more normal to, well, you know, actually view a new product with a modicum of skepticism, educate yourself about it (after it is released), and only then - if what you see matches your expectations - get excited about it and buy it?

You do realize this forum was created as a fansite about the rumors for 3rd ed right? I'm jazzed about 4th ed, but won't buy it sight unseen.

The trouble is, you never know when "all else [is] equal."

Is there anything more depressing than a blind optimist, striding confidently into doom? I am thinking of those poor early Western explorers who packed up their bags, set out for Kansas, and (in the fact of their own inexperience and the advice of friends) managed to freeze to death during the winter, both husband, wife, and three children. Go West, my Son, and be Optimistic. Just have your eyes open, eh?

Fortunately we're discussing a hobby here. No one will be left dead due to unwarranted optimism about 4th Ed D&D. Now if someone wanders into the steam tunnels things might get dicey.

 

[Rechan]

WOTC: We're making a better game for you! It'll be more fun because it's streamlined for ease of play!!
Customer: OK. That sounds good. How'd you streamline it?
WOTC: By making it easier to play!!
Customer: Yeah right, I get it. But HOW did you do that?

Except that they've given examples. Monsters are simpler by stripping out a lot of abilities that just muddies the water (Ogre Mage being a huge offender here).

Rather than reference a spell-like ability or power, the monster's ability is fairly unique to the monster and right there in the statblock.

 

[hazel monday]

Except that they've given examples. Monsters are simpler by stripping out a lot of abilities that just muddies the water (Ogre Mage being a huge offender here).

Rather than reference a spell-like ability or power, the monster's ability is fairly unique to the monster and right there in the statblock.

I guess it just boils down to a difference of opinion. I never really found running an ogre Mage to be a gamestopper. And i'd like to see the new statblocks before I judge whether they're an improvement or not. This seem s like more of us just having to take the designer's at their word. If you ask me this whole schtick seems unfair to the designers. WOTC should hire separate people to do design work and PR work. Just cuz someone's a good designer doesn't mean they should be in advertising.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Is it just me, or is anyone else out there a little perplexed by the wild excitement of the MerricB's on this board?

I'm not as excited as him. Mind you, doesn't MerricB portray himself as an optimist? It would be weird if he wasn't excited.

It's not because WOTC really wants to make the game more fun for us; if their new release manages this, that's a bonus.

The designers are also gamers. The designers aren't in charge of WotC's finances, or at least most of them aren't. I think you're tarring many people with one brush here. WotC just makes money off their hard work, like they make money off of your (as you probably need to work to buy their products).

In any event, I had to stop running 3.x. I hate the magic item rules, and the NPC rules are almost as bad. Anything that fixes that and is as runnable (or more) than 3.x will get me to buy it.

 

[jollyninja]

This is why fourth edition excites me and why I'm happy it is coming.

While it is undeniably true that WotC the corporate entity does not care about the quality of a product as long as it sells, I believe that the individual employees do in fact have loftier goals for the line. My single favorite d20 product was Iron heroes. It was a product that approached the mechanics of the system from the angle of enabling the players to make an attempt, however unlikely success might be, to do anything they wanted. Sacred cows that made no sense to the designer and rules that made the game less fun were thrown aside in favor of an orgy of action and blood. The author of that book was Mike Mearls, who is now an employee of WotC and directly involved in writing the rules of fourth edition. Mr. Mearls is but a single example of how the authors of fourth edition are people who by and large have written books I enjoyed previously, books that have added fun to my games.

Like many here the fact that I play D&D does not blind me to it's imperfections, on the contrary I run in to them every week and come here to discuss solutions for the problems as well as general roleplaying subjects. While I have house rules that fill the rules gaps I find it encouraging that the developers are speaking about the same problems I see and addressing them. I have faith in the individuals that are piloting the ship and the ship has held together for a long time now.

Why will I buy 4e without first having read reviews and playtesting it? Because $100 for three core books is nothing to me. Even if I only play three nights of 6 hrs each and then never touch the books again in my disgust, that's still cheaper then devoting a similar ammount of time to movies at a theater and I get to interact with people who's company I enjoy the entire time. I also get the joy of writing a new campaign world (one of my favorite ways to whittle away my time) that fits the inherant theme of the new edition. I actually said to a friend about six months ago "I hope WotC gets on with it and announces fourth edition at gencon".

It's not that I think 3.5 is unplayable as I play it weekly. I just honestly believe that there is no more content worth writing for the system. In fact I believe that they ran out of worth while content for the system a long time ago. When you start coming out with books like the book of nine swords which I loved but which thematically simply does not fit your game as it exists, you need to take a look at weither you can continue to create material for the system and not end up like 2e was near the point where TSR sold. To be honest, I just see 3.5 as being done. People who say things like "I have enough 3.X books to last me forever, I'll never switch to 4e" are simply driving that point home. Why should they hope you'll buy more when you already have so much more then you'll ever need?

Also, not cool mentioning merricb specifically. The guy just loves gaming and game books. He's done nothing worthy of provoking anyone's ire. But what do I know after all, I'm just a lemmingsheep with the thrall template who likes to travel in herds of 2-12.

 

[Glyfair]

I never really found running an ogre Mage to be a gamestopper.

What about 5 Ogre Mages? By that I mean 5 different creatures with the amount of complexity that the Ogre Mages have. Can you do that easily?

Will 4E solve this? I don't know. However, it's clear the designers are trying to do so.

This seem s like more of us just having to take the designer's at their word.

Why wouldn't I? It's not like they are on TV late night telling me to send in my money for the latest, greatest edition of D&D. My only investment is in time looking at the news and tidbits. Assuming the designers are lying seems like a colossal waste of effort to me.

If you ask me this whole schtick seems unfair to the designers.

People want to hear from the designers about the game and process of developing it. They don't really want to read the information filtered through a PR department that probably have played maybe one or two games in their life (if that).

 

[SpiderMonkey]

It's not because WOTC really wants to make the game more fun for us; if their new release manages this, that's a bonus.

The bottom line is money; they know they can make a huge profit out of 4E, and that's why it is being created and released. If it's a great game, that is icing on the cake.

If the game is not fun, it won't sell. That's counter-productive, and the designers know this. If we are to follow your premise (that WOTC wants to make money), it follows that they will go out of their way to make it fun.

How are you not simply acting like little pawns being pushed around the board by the WOTC PR people?

All this chitter-chatter...it's really a bit sad...I don't understand the blind fan-boy devotion...you are hopping up and down with excitement, your fistful of dollars extended...Why this sheep-like, herd-like, lemming-like thralldom to WOTC financial-driven announcements?

Poisoning the well is an informal logical fallacy and specifically a form of argumentum ad hominem where a participant pre-emptively argues that another participant's statements are to be disregarded because of their personal circumstances.

The ad hominem fallacy is an informal logical fallacy, formally known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument at the person"), where a participant argues that a belief is incorrect because of some failure or flaw in the person making the argument.

Not that I would be able to discern the use of these ploys, me being an uncritical reader and all...a sheep-like, herd-like, lemming-like, you'relotsofbad-like thrall and all.

The proposed changes to my lifelong hobby have me excited. I like being excited. I like talking to other people who are excited. Message boards dedicated to said changes offer me the opportunity to do the above. I'm a little perplexed at your claims of being perplexed. I'm not entirely sure you're perplexed. Disdainful, perhaps, but I would ask that you don't disguise it as being perplexed. That's just more subterfuge and obfuscation in a post laced with condescending obscurantism.

Er...that's my read, anyway.

 

[MerricB]

You're gettin' free books, aren't you?

Oh, I only wish I was.

Hey, if you think *this* is optimistic, you had to see me back in the days around the release of D&D Miniatures!

Cheers!

 

[DaveMage]

Oh, I only wish I was.

Hey, if you think *this* is optimistic, you had to see me back in the days around the release of D&D Miniatures!

Cheers!

Ya know, for all the good cheer you've spread about D&D and DDM over the years, I'm surprised they haven't comped you *something*. You've gotta be, like, their #1 fan....

 

[Nifft]

Oh, I only wish I was.

If anyone deserves a free case of minis, dude, it's you.

WotC, take note!

Cheers, -- N