D&D 4E 4E Mechanics can reduce the need for combat!

[hbarsquared]

I came upon a realization a few moments ago while pondering the unified mechanic of 4E. Many have bemoaned that it focuses far too much on the combat aspect of the game, at the expense of "RP." I disagree, since we have not seen the full developed system, plus just because there are good mechanics for combat does not have any effect on an ability to roleplay. With that said, here is my realization...

Let's say you have an "RP intensive" group, where combat is rare, if at all. As I have discovered in this thread, it looks 4E also provides a skill encounter mechanic where the character must generate a certain number of successes to meet a goal. Why cannot this idea be applied to combat itself?

Let's say you don't want to use the grid and deal with 1-1-1-1 diagonal movement. Let's say that you don't want to worry about shifts, terrain, and speed. Let's say that you would prefer to get on with the story, or treat the combat as a narrative encounter, instead of worrying about the turn-by-turn events.

Treat is as you would a skill encounter!

Instead of describing on your turn the number of squares you want to move and detail the number of damage you do to individual targets, you treat the combat in a more general sense. You describe to the DM, "I want to start shooting my bow from behind the trees." Or, "I want to go in swinging." The DM then sets the DCs, circumstance bonuses, and such, and the players then roll a series of checks and attacks. The DM treats the entire affair as a skill encounter, treating the combat as a narrative and allowing the players to describe, in an "RP" fashion, "What do you do next?"

I'm not saying that every group would prefer combat this way, or that every group should. But I just realized that the rules likely allow for it. If you would rather say, "I want to attack these guys, then this guy with my special power, then try to hide, then attack from behind a tree...." instead of moving your miniature on a grid, then you can!.

And not only that, it's probably easier to do in 4e than in 3.x!

How about that?

 

[LordArchaon]

I'm sure it would be possible: what we heard about social encounters screams out "consolidated rules for social encounters", so those rules could just be used for combat.
Of course, it would be interesting if maybe only certain combats, depending on situation monster and everything, would be treated like that by the DM.

IDEA: you could even mix the two modes, having one or two characters acting in social encounter mode to "solve" part of the combat, while others actually hacking and slashing with traditional system.
Solutions like this would also make happy the ones that say they don't want to play characters who are good in combat.

 

[LostSoul]

I was thinking the same thing. It would be difficult to get modifiers to work out (ie. something like a high-attack, low damage vs. a guy with tons of hp), but you could do it.

In fact, you could possibly use that system as your basic combat engine, and use the standard, high-detail one for the really exciting ones you want to focus more of your real-life time on.

 

[hcm]

You could use the principles of conflict resolution (instead of task resolution) for the outcome of the skill encounter -- "if you win, this will be accomplished, but if you lose, you'll face these problems ..." That way, the story moves on either way, and you get past the problems of getting wounded or dieing in skill encounter combat (i e the risks are set in the stakes at the start of the encounter and don't have to be a result of individual rolls or actions).

Just a suggestion. I think it would be a very welcome possibility, especially as the players can have their say in setting the stakes and describing what happens.

 

[LordArchaon]

I was thinking the same thing. It would be difficult to get modifiers to work out (ie. something like a high-attack, low damage vs. a guy with tons of hp), but you could do it.

In fact, you could possibly use that system as your basic combat engine, and use the standard, high-detail one for the really exciting ones you want to focus more of your real-life time on.

Yeah, it would be a little difficult if wanting to actually deal damage with skills. I'd say the mechanic could be used to actually disable certain foes, out-maneuver them actually skipping the fight but getting the XPs for having done it so skillfully (WOW! ), or maybe just make them surrender or who knows what. Then of course, if you think you are just so acrobatic that you can leap over a kobold and break his neck pinning his head between your legs and rotating them while you leap over, like some kind of videogame street fighting girl... A DC 35 Acrobatics check could easily mean that you kill the poor reptile!

 

[PeelSeel2]

I use a grid for some combat (with dry erase markets and a laminated 1/2" grid 32"x40"), and I use a 'narrative' style for others (although I have never would have labeled them 'narrative').

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

That's a really interesting idea - might go down very well with some people I game with. It'd also help get by the 'routine' fights to help save the battlemat and figures for the more important fight.

I would suggest adding bonuses to skill checks for using a Daily or Encounter power, too, say +2 and +5.

It's a really interesting idea and needs to be brought back up once the rules are out so it can be developed.

 

[Quickleaf]

Great observation! It seems like you'd want to use a "success threshold combat" for those fights where the PCs won't be using many powers (which would be difficult to judge, since they're combat-focused): Overwhelming waves of minions, Swarms, Gargantuan guardian golems, Fights where the objective is less to incapacitate the opponents and more to accomplish a goal before them (e.g. fighting during a horse race), and Warfare (I could see it working really well for this).

 

[Kordeth]

The great thing about this is you can easily use it to handle fights the combat system just can't. Want to have your epic PCs wade through a horde of 1,000 goblins? Minion rules will only go so far--but a skill encounter using attack rolls and narrative description could handle it easily.

I bet there's even a way to marry the two systems together--suppose, for instance, the PCs are leading an army on the field of battle. You can use a skill encounter to track the overall battle, and "zoom in" on a few skirmihes involving the PCs. You could even give bonuses or levy penalties to the PCs in the skirmishes based on their progress in the battle, or count victory in a skirmish as one or more skill successes.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

This is an important thing to realize.

Intricate combat mechanics encourage combat. Remove them and you remove much of the incentive for combat.