D&D 4E 4e Monster List - Dwarven Nosepicker & Elven Butt Scratcher

Thing is though, Brob can be a Hobgoblin Warcaster on the page, but to the players and rest of the world he is simply Brob.

I don't see any reason why unique and interesting enemies can't come from these variants, as well as simple cannon-fodder, they fit both roles.
 

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Celebrim said:
Brob? Gwill? Grezzil the Merciless? H'ronk the Black? The hobgoblin wizard from encounter 23?

You see, it is that 'it' part that I find rather lame. The notion that there are Hoblin Warcasters about as a class of presumably numerous identical beings is lame to me whatever you call them.

This is as silly as sillier than saying that hobgoblin war1s as presented in the 3E MM are a group of numerous identical beings.
 

hong said:
This is as silly as sillier than saying that hobgoblin war1s as presented in the 3E MM are a group of numerous identical beings.

And if 'Warcaster' were a class, you'd have a damn good point.

Hell, if PCs in 4e used 'exception based design', it would be cool. Everyone would be their own class. :)

Meh. It's 2:00 and i'm sleepy. In three months, we'll know if typical play results in unresolvable/complex edge cases due to different rules for PCs and monsters, or not.
 



Lizard said:
Because I have a fetish for consistent rules.
Whereas I have a fetish for peanut butter ice cream medium-rare char-grilled steaks and peppercorn sauce.

It is impossible to tweak a non-classed creature, because...?
 

EATherrian said:
Not to snark, but there is no slinger, there is Sharpshooter. Now tell me the simple role of each of these just by sight: Gnoll - Clawfighter, Demonic Scourge, Huntmaster, Marauder. I can probably figure 2 off-hand and I'd still probably be wrong. I wouldn't mind names that actually told me what they did. Those are cool. It's these sorts of names I don't like.
Oh come on, really?

Hmm, let's see . . .

Gnoll Clawfighter - Seems to be a gnoll who FIGHTS with claws, I'm going with Fighter.

Gnoll Demonic Scourge - A gnoll who is either demonic or simply likes them some demons, and scourges its enemies, I'm going with Cleric.

Gnoll Huntmaster - Ranger, hands down.

Gnoll Marauder - Probably Fighter, maybe Rogue.

Every one I've seen so far has actually been pretty easy. The toughest might be the Goblin Picador, if you don't own a dictionary . . . (for those who don't, a picador is a horseman who assists the matador in a bullfight)
 

hong said:
Whereas I have a fetish for peanut butter ice cream medium-rare char-grilled steaks and peppercorn sauce.

It is impossible to tweak a non-classed creature, because...?

Mechanically, there's no problem.

*Conceptually*, there's a problem. If there's a Warcaster Academy, why can't I have a hobgoblin who graduated from it? Does it accept Drow transfer students? If I polymorph into a hobgoblin can I sneak and learn their secret arts? Are warcasters born or made? If there's 3rd level Apprentice Warcasters and 10th level Master Warcasters, each with different specific powers, what does a 5th level Moderately Skilled Warcaster look like? Etc, etc, etc.

Same with pseudo-clerics, pseudo-rogues, pseudo-bards, whatever. They exist because they fit a mechanical niche, because they 'live for five rounds', and because using 4e PC classes for most humanoids is too complex to be fun or useful. It works atomically on an encounter level. It doesn't work on a world level, unless there's a mountain of flavor text and fanwank we haven't seen yet. And on a practical level, I'm worried about interactions between monsters-built-for-encounters and a gaming style which does not assume that is the model. The warcaster is balanced for an encounter against PCs; is he balanced as an ally of the PCs? As a non-combat social enemy of the PCs?

You may have played Wizardry 8. In it, you could recruit NPCs to join your party, or sometimes fight them. If you fought them, they were total badasses who would clean your clock. If you recruited them, they were wussy low level PCs who could barely take out a leprous weasel.

This made perfect sense from a game balance perspective. It made zero sense from a world consistency perspective.

In an RPG, both matter to me, in varying proportion based on my mood.
 

GVDammerung said:
If you add another adjective, things can only get better - Red Dwarven Nosepicker! Green Elven Butt Scratcher. As opposed to the black, white and puce versions.

Don't forget the Sepia Dwarven Nosepicker and Moss Green Elven Butt Scratcher.

/obscure silly anime reference
 

Lizard said:
Mechanically, there's no problem.

*Conceptually*, there's a problem. If there's a Warcaster Academy, why can't I have a hobgoblin who graduated from it?

...

...and so on and so forth...

You have still not fully accepted Hong's 2nd Law. Give it time.

And on a practical level, I'm worried about interactions between monsters-built-for-encounters and a gaming style which does not assume that is the model. The warcaster is balanced for an encounter against PCs; is he balanced as an ally of the PCs? As a non-combat social enemy of the PCs?

No D&D version has had monsters that are perfectly balanced, without DM intervention, for every scenario that they could possibly be a part of. As long as they are mechanically balanced for those scenarios that they will most likely be a part of, that's good enough.
 

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