D&D 4E 4e Monster List - Dwarven Nosepicker & Elven Butt Scratcher

[Doug McCrae]

Look at the previous ways D&D differentiated between monsters of the same species -

1e: Leaders and lieutenants had extra hit dice. An orc chief for example might have 4HD and fight as an ogre. Simple but not very flavorful, leaders just have bigger numbers.

3e: You can advance monsters and give them templates or class levels. Somewhat flavorful but time consuming. The DM has to do all the work. However it should be noted that the original MM devoted space to a few leader types such as the harpy fighter and ogre barbarian. I wonder if GVDammerung objects to those too.

4e uses flavorful mechanics to differentiate monsters. A goblin picador has a unique mechanic for example. Unlike 3e, all the work is done for the DM.

Just amazing design.

I agree. Great to see support for 4e growing.

 

[breschau]

The thing I notice about this is that it looks like a MMO monster collection. Or even a CCG card list.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for having multiple versions of monsters statted out for me. Makes the chore of creating unique encounters against the same creature type much easier.

I just couldn't help that noticing that the names of these creatures feel very MMO and/or CCG ish.

If I could design the monster manual, I would create a base creature (e.g. Orc) who has a base HP, AC, Saves, etc. Then I would add a table under the base creature that has rows representing unique orcs (slinger, marauder, witch, rhino-rider, etc.), with columns that represent changes to the base stat block (column 1 would be what you add to their AC, column 2 adds to their HP, etc.). Better yet, these values replace the base values so DMs don't have to do any math on the fly.

That way I can maybe have hundreds of unique base creatures in the Monster Manual, with ultimately over a thousand total creatures once you count the tables of variations.

Of course, that's a lot of work and it minimizes the profit value of selling MMII, MMIII, MMIV, etc., so I suspect that the actual MM will have fewer base creatures with lots of real estate take up by the variations - real estate that could have had other, new base creatures if the variations had been handled more efficiently.

Here's to hoping that the online data is really organized...

The trouble is there can't really be a "base Orc" in the new set-up. It at least needs a role to fill, therefore it will be optimized for that role and not a "base" creature.

I just hope the monster design is as open as they claim.

 

[neoweasel]

A good way to predict the monsters we will see in the MMs is to look at the mini sets still available from WotC. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of multiple variations on each monster to help the DM, I'm just a bit pissed they're using the DDM monsters for the MM, instead of the other way around.

I've read this a couple times and I'm not sure what you're upset about. If all the monsters in the MM are in DDM, how can you tell from which source each monster "originally" came?

 

[IanB]

A good way to predict the monsters we will see in the MMs is to look at the mini sets still available from WotC. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of multiple variations on each monster to help the DM, I'm just a bit pissed they're using the DDM monsters for the MM, instead of the other way around.

That includes a lot of assumptions about the order in which things were designed that I don't think we're qualified to make. Just because we happen to get the minis first because of the way the product cycle works doesn't mean that the monster roster for the first MM wasn't decided on until after the minis were designed. It could just as easily mean that the last few sets of minis were designed after already knowing what would be in the 4e MM.

 

[KidSnide]

It is very awesome.
Hobgoblin - Archer, Warcaster, Soldier
Human - Bandit, Mage, Berserker, Guard

Awesome, indeed. Plus, it's not like we're missing out on value. Want a human soldier? Take the Human Guard, remove "Powerful Strike" and replace it with "Formation Strike" and "Phallanx Soldier" from the Hobgoblin Soldier, and voila, you get a human enemy with a military feel.

 

[cdrcjsn]

Call me sick, but i'm really curious what abilities a Dwarven Nosepicker or an Elven Butt Scratcher might have...

 

[mach1.9pants]

Call me sick, but i'm really curious what abilities a Dwarven Nosepicker or an Elven Butt Scratcher might have...

The Elven Butt Scratcher's will all be called 'fiddlesworth'

I love the whole thing, each 2 page spread of the MM will have half a dozen different variations on a race. That is good value for money. No more either a) boring all the same goblins or b) different adninteresting goblins but they'll take me a few hours to stat up; like 3E.
As Cadfan said on the picador thread; you can run a module against hobgoblins and not have hours of statting ahead of you to make them varied.

 

[Protagonist]

Call me sick, but i'm really curious what abilities a Dwarven Nosepicker or an Elven Butt Scratcher might have...

And 4E's dynamic monster creation system will allow us to merge them into a Dwelfen Buttpicker with ease!

 

[Stormtalon]

Call me sick, but i'm really curious what abilities a Dwarven Nosepicker or an Elven Butt Scratcher might have...

You are a sick, sick man. But then again, so am I....

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I just wish that they would realize what they think of as evocative and cool is usually hackneyed and lame.

Hopefully they'll get it eventually. Of course for some people it IS evocative and cool, I'm sure. I'm just very certain I'm not one of them.