D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Sojorn]

Hmm. I read it more as a compulsion to protect and defend the succubus, but not one powerful enough that compels the charmed person to actually attack his allies. I see him intercepting their attacks on the succubus and pleading with them to stop attacking his "true love."

But really I'd be happy with either so long as the player was engaging with the game and not just using some rules loophole to escape consequences.

Yeah, again, I think this has to do with what Charm and Dominate used to mean causing a bit of static in the line.

They're a keyword (Charm) and a status (Dominated) now. I hope that the definition for the dominated status is very specific and very flavorless so whatever fluff works for the monster that uses the status can be applied to come about to that final effect of having your actions controlled by something else. Being madly in love with a supernaturally beautiful creature for example. Or just having your will ground under by a mindflyer as another.

Stunned, just as a quick comparison, just means that you can't take any actions and you grant combat advantage. That could mean tangled in vines, covered in goo, hit on the head soundly, frightened out of your wits or any number of other things. The status effect doesn't say, that's the job of the interaction of the fluff and the DM/player's interpretation of that fluff.

 

[tomBitonti]

Like me you missed that the Succubus can only have one person charmed at any time.

Yep.

 

[Sojorn]

Well, making the battles last longer and less deadly is one thing, BUT 1d6+8 and 4d4+8?

At a point where even the pregen wizard would have 108 hp (+x healing surges)?

Slightly worried about this myself.

The nasty combos that people are coming up with for the War Devil and then discarding as unfair actually give me hope though. As unfair as the Devil combos might seem, I'm sure epic characters can come up with some things that are worse.

 

[Shroomy]

The only thing I don't like about the Succubus is that since Dominate (probably) counts as an attack, the succubus can't kiss a victim, then draw them back with a Dominate and still keep the interpose ability on them.

I'll be houseruling that the kiss wears off only if the Succubus deals damage to the target, or if she kisses a different target.

Couldn't the succubus dominate its victim at range, command it to come near, and then use its kiss as an opportunity attack? I thought that melee powers with a small "m" could be used in a OA situation.

 

[Mirtek]

Slightly worried about this myself.

The nasty combos that people are coming up with for the War Devil and then discarding as unfair actually give me hope though. As unfair as the Devil combos might seem, I'm sure epic characters can come up with some things that are worse.

Even so: 11.5 and 18 damage? That's almost the same the 1st level pregens can do

 

[AZRogue]

Couldn't the succubus dominate its victim at range, command it to come near, and then use its kiss as an opportunity attack? I thought that melee powers with a small "m" could be used in a OA situation.

You are very devious, my friend. I missed that option completely. As a matter of fact, a dominated foe could be forced to walk a very ugly path on its way to the succubus. Depending on the monsters with her there might not be much left to take a hit for her the following round.

 

[Sojorn]

Even so: 11.5 and 18 damage? That's almost the same the 1st level pregens can do

Exactly why I'm still worried even taking the combos into account.

 

[Voss]

I think I'd be most pleased with the interpretation:

Dominate = puppet.
1st Kiss = Charmed.
Followup = Interpose yourself between succubus and attacks that target her.

Except that is specifically not how it works.
The AC part of the kiss does nothing. All the rules text is in the followup attack.

I guess you can assume that's one giant typo, but I really don't see any reason to do so. It goes a bit beyond 'different interpretations' and into pie in the sky blind hope.

 

[Lacyon]

Even so: 11.5 and 18 damage? That's almost the same the 1st level pregens can do

18 damage + 5 ongoing damage (which is an average of 27 unless the party uses save-boosting or save-granting effects).

As a minor action, grant two allies basic attacks (using its own 11.5 average as a baseline gives us ~23 damage).

That seems reasonably potent for 25% of a 4-PC encounter. It does look a bit weak on its "off" rounds, when nothing recharges.

 

[frankthedm]

Well, making the battles last longer and less deadly is one thing, BUT 1d6+8 and 4d4+8?

At a point where even the pregen wizard would have 108 hp (+x healing surges)?

Yeah, you won't see "Spiked chain {w/ 5 point power attack] +20/+15/+10 melee (2d6+25 plus 1d4 rounds of stun) and bite +17 melee (2d8+10) and tail +17 melee (2d6+10 plus infernal wound)" in 4E. The battle is supposed to last many rounds. Also remember that one devil is only 1/5ththe opposition.