D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Mal Malenkirk]

Very interesting to look at these pre-set encounter

Level 9 encounter

1 succubus (level 9 controller)
2 snaketongue assassins (level 9 lurker)
2 crushgrip constrictors (level 9 soldier)

Hmm. 4 level 9 monster should make a level 9 encounter. Looks like another one of those exception based design, since I can't come up with a minion/standard/elite/solo arrangement that matches.

Level 21 encounter

1 war devil (level 22 brute)
1 ice devil (level 20 soldier)
2 bone devils (level 17 controller)
12 legion devil legionnaires (level 21 minion)

This is interesting. A level 22 monster in a level 21 encounter. We knew it could be done but it's nice to see in practice. That looks like a very nasty and interesting fight.

But again, this doesn't match the basic encounter guide lines we know of. 12 level 21 minion should account for 3 level 21 PC... The remaining PC has to account for the rest? Better be a munchkin!

I'm guessing this 16/4/2/1 guideline has a fair margin for increasing monsters, like you can go 25% above it in terms of XP before meandering into TPK territory.

Or perhaps they're actually using a 5 PC party as a standard, after all.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

is that 12 individual legion devil legionnaires, or devil legionnaires from the 12th legion?

I think that is 12 individual monsters.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

That said, technically, at a xp value of 400, a succubus and 2 kobold skirmishers should be a beatable challenge for the 6 pre-gen characters (although, I personally believe that even the new monster scale has a breaking limit and I suspect that an 8 level difference between monster and PC is just too much. If this actually is a beatable challenge, I'm more impressed with the math).

The succubus has only 90 HP. Great defenses, but I think it might be easier to kill than the level 4 black dragon from the DDXP scenario.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Hey, i like the solution how they made Charm useful in combat and allow the Succubus to sustain the Charm indefinitely. This kind of out-of-combat power makes me happy.

 

[Jack99]

That said, technically, at a xp value of 400, a succubus and 2 kobold skirmishers should be a beatable challenge for the 6 pre-gen characters (although, I personally believe that even the new monster scale has a breaking limit and I suspect that an 8 level difference between monster and PC is just too much. If this actually is a beatable challenge, I'm more impressed with the math).

I think someone ran some mock battles against a level 8 brute, where the pregens won quite a few battles (but lost more), but maybe someone recalls the specifics. Either way, I agree, it does seem to give many more possibilities. Especially if you favor the sandbox approach to making campaigns, since players won't be auto-killed in the first round if they run into something with a lot more levels than themselves. I like that a lot.

On one hand players will pose a threat to many more creatures, so higher level monsters and NPCs can't just ignore them or do as they please (and will thus approach them in another way), and on the other hand, players won't just be able to ignore lower level monsters.

 

[Jack99]

Or perhaps they're actually using a 5 PC party as a standard, after all.

AFAIK, they have all along said that 5 man PC party will be their new default.

 

[FadedC]

Sounds like there will be more then 1 type of legion devil which surprised me a bit, since I wouldn't expect minions to come in different flavors. Not that it's a bad thing.

 

[Graf]

Asmodeus killed his old boss now.
That's worthy.

Anybody notice they're using Eberron art for the background.
Must have run out of pictures by WAR.

 

[AllisterH]

Very interesting to look at these pre-set encounter

Level 9 encounter

1 succubus (level 9 controller)
2 snaketongue assassins (level 9 lurker)
2 crushgrip constrictors (level 9 soldier)

Hmm. 4 level 9 monster should make a level 9 encounter. Looks like another one of those exception based design, since I can't come up with a minion/standard/elite/solo arrangement that matches.

.

Er, I count 5 monsters there. 1 succubus + 2 assassins + 2 constrictors = 5 monsters, no?

Level 21 encounter

1 war devil (level 22 brute)
1 ice devil (level 20 soldier)
2 bone devils (level 17 controller)
12 legion devil legionnaires (level 21 minion)

This is interesting. A level 22 monster in a level 21 encounter. We knew it could be done but it's nice to see in practice. That looks like a very nasty and interesting fight.

But again, this doesn't match the basic encounter guide lines we know of. 12 level 21 minion should account for 3 level 21 PC... The remaining PC has to account for the rest? Better be a munchkin!

I'm guessing this 16/4/2/1 guideline has a fair margin for increasing monsters, like you can go 25% above it in terms of XP before meandering into TPK territory.

I think you're doing it wrong.

The monster encounter design is based on an XP budget. An encounter is based on the number of persons in the PC party and thus, each PC supplies an equal amount to this budget. The assumption that WOTC is using is that the average party has 5 PCs.

Each level of the PC supplies a certain value to the xp budget and assuming that each PC is the same level, you simply multiply by 5.

Each monster level corresponds to this xp level for the PC. Thus, a level 1 PC provides 100 xp to the budget and in total, a 6 person team has 600xp as its budget.

Supposedly, any monster that falls under that budget irrespctive of that level can be beat by the PCs. Thus, for example, the 6 pre-gen characters from DDXP should be able to beat a succubus and 2 kobold skirmishers.

So, for the war devil, in a 5 person level 21 party, 3 PCs account for the 12 level 21 minions (4 minions for each) and the xp total for a level 22 war devil + level 20 ice devil + 2 level 17 bone devils should equal the xp provided for 2 level 21 PCs

 

[Graf]

Charm no longer
1) sucks
2) is painfully vague requiring the DM and the player of the charmed character to spend a half hour arguing about what the PC is obliged to do.

That's pretty worthy.