D&D 4E 4e Monster Manual excerpt

[Plane Sailing]

Oh, I agree with you!

I wonder whether they allowed any playtesters to comment on things like these issues? I've had the impression that they were asking playtesters very specific closed questions in many cases, and they may have not had some pretty basic feedback on these issues.

Cheers

 

[Just Another User]

The succubus is an embodiment of Lust. Makes perfect sense.
(And if you want, it's just a minor action to change sex before kissing someone.)

Perfect? I'd say it make "4E sense", i.e. you can rationalize it, someway, but it is still weird.

 

[DandD]

Actually, the 4th edition Succubus doesn't have to be an embodiment of Lust at all, just a devil-monster trained to become a scout, advisor, and even concubine to higher-ranked devils.

Don't think in old 3rd edition-terms.

 

[Wolfspider]

Actually, the 4th edition Succubus doesn't have to be an embodiment of Lust at all, just a devil-monster trained to become a scout, advisor, and even concubine to higher-ranked devils.

Why call it a succubus at all then?

Regarding the succubus as an embodiment of lust is not thinking in 3.5 terms. It is a result of knowing what the word means.

 

[HeinorNY]

Actually, the 4th edition Succubus doesn't have to be an embodiment of Lust at all, just a devil-monster trained to become a scout, advisor, and even concubine to higher-ranked devils.

Don't think in old 3rd edition-terms.

Then she is not a succubus anymore, just a beautiful standard controller devil.

 

[Sojorn]

I really, really, REALLY want to know how the heck the dominate effect works now. If the tactics arn't just an editing error, then there has to be some way to continue a dominate effect without the original power coming into play.

And what are the limits of the control? Can you make them jump into lava? Cut their own throat? Pick their nose? Maybe the victim gets to struggle with the control and take actions sometimes?

Mind control is pretty common in D&D, I hope they made it a fun effect rather than just "I get to play your character" or "Let's argue about the definition of friend for an hour."

 

[DandD]

D&D unfortunately never was that good for capturing the real-mythology essence into some of the monsters. According to Worlds&Monsters, the Devils are just a bunch of angel servants who became twisted beings after they killed their god, and Asmodeus took control of that job. D&D-devils have a militaristic feeling, and are all part of a society bend on conquering the universe. The real-world Succubus is just an evil spirit that sleeps with men (lying under them, hence Succubus), and then goes and impregnate women when it transforms itself into an Incubus (then lying on the women), and so creating half-demon bastards. The D&D-Succubus on the other hand rather has military duties, and may serve as an ambassador to powerful kings, wizards and even gods who need the mercenary service of the Devils from the Nine Hells.

Or, to be blunt, the real-world Succubus is a sperm-trading shapechanger, whereas the D&D-Succubus is just a Mata Hari with batwings...

 

[Nine Hands]

What I really don't like about the whole Trident bit is the fact that it has three different effects (damage, involuntary movement, knockdown) and not only are they all determined by a single roll (which I don't agree with in principle, but whatever, it's the whole simplicity thing, I can understand the thought behind it, I guess), but there isn't even a size restriction of any kind on it.

If you can hit the AC, you flip it over with the pitchfork, no matter whether it's a human or a gigantic dragon. It's a total abstraction. (like the undefined continual damage) Hooray for exception-based design.

But does it really matter? Unless you are going to run an encounter with creatures larger than the devil, then the problem is moot.

If you are...well you are the GM, just do what makes sense.

I understand your frustration but I don't want to see a bunch of text explaining how the effect won't work on a creature that is 2 size categories or larger. Its a waste of text since this monster is for fighting medium sized people.

 

[D.Shaffer]

I understand your frustration but I don't want to see a bunch of text explaining how the effect won't work on a creature that is 2 size categories or larger. Its a waste of text since this monster is for fighting medium sized people.

Or what happens when they face oozes. Or incorporeal creatures. Or a power write up so that PC's can learn how to do it if they ever get their hands on a Malebrache's trident and a malebranche to teach them how to use it.

The rules are written so that Monster Manual creatures are opponents of the PCs. You're going to need to use your own judgement if you end up with monsters fighting monsters.

 

[pawsplay]

Or what happens when they face oozes. Or incorporeal creatures. Or a power write up so that PC's can learn how to do it if they ever get their hands on a Malebrache's trident and a malebranche to teach them how to use it.

The rules are written so that Monster Manual creatures are opponents of the PCs. You're going to need to use your own judgement if you end up with monsters fighting monsters.

Summon Monster. Wildshape. Dominate.