D&D 4E 4e monsters, Hit Dice, and HP

[grimslade]

HD mechanic is dead.
Monsters have levels. Spells have levels. DCs scale and saving throws scale. No need to worry about Daze affecting a Balor. Unless, 1 is always a failure/ 20 id auto success mechanic remains.

 

[DonTadow]

I thought I'd repost my concerns/issues with this type of system, from the other post, here...

I could see so many problems with doing it this way...especially if it works for both players and monsters.

My main point of contention is the metagame aspect of it all. How does a player know when a monster falls below a certain hit point threshold? I certainly don't give out this information in the game's I run, so I see two possibilities from a player perspective.

1. Tons of wasted spells as they guess at what hit points a particular monster or creature is at.

2. Metagame is now the game, Everyone(DM and player) knows how many hit points their opponents have and act accordingly in the game.

Neither of these options appeal to me at all.

From a DM's perspective it also has certain problems. First in order to use abilities that are dependant upon what hit point threshold my players are at I will have to cross reference their hit point totals and the total at which the ability takes place throughout the combat. I don't see this as streamlined in anyway, it seems overly complicated since each PC is going to have different hp's at different times throughout the entire encounter. Second, how would my monster/NPC know when to use this ability? Yet, I as DM will always know exactly when to use it. Do I pretend the monster is at the same disadvantage as the players, or are we once again at the point where metagame is the game.

IMHO, this would be jarring in the extreme during play and would have the added complication of both PC's and DM's concerned with tracking their opponents hp's. I can see it now, everyone with a small tablet steadily recording how many hp's each has so they'll know when to use their ability.

So add the sense motive check from complete adventuer that lets you guage someone's hp. Why does it seem that every problem people conjure up has a think out of the box answer. If you stay shackled to 3.5 you'll never understand alot of the concepts in 4.0

 

[DonTadow]

You don't think a wizard should be more prone to Fear, to give one example, than a big burly fighter-guy with lots of HP?

But considering that most fighters are great at making fortitude and reflex saves, what wil change. I don't see to many wizards taking on a fireball.

 

[howandwhy99]

I think HD-based effects will be gone entirely, and HP will be the new "hit dice".

For example, Cause Fear affects creatures of 5HD or lower -- why not just have it affect creatures with under 25 hitpoints? Not only does it make the spell more versatile, it also makes a lot of sense, as creatures brought to a low number of HP from taking damage should be more likely to get scared off by a magical effect than they were at 100 hp.

Good lord. I hope HD and Hit Point based effects are removed entirely. Base effects on CR or its new equivalent and be done with it.

On the other hand, spells like sleep that are useless except for CR # and below are particularly frustrating. Why build a spell only to be used for certain levels?

 

[WarlockLord]

Just get rid of HP/HD based effects. They seem a little metagamey (HP is a construct existing only out of character) Why would you be utterly immune to sleep at 5th level?

 

[Imaro]

So add the sense motive check from complete adventuer that lets you guage someone's hp. Why does it seem that every problem people conjure up has a think out of the box answer. If you stay shackled to 3.5 you'll never understand alot of the concepts in 4.0

Because if I'm going to think "out of the box" with 3.5 it will be to streamline or simplify combat...not add more steps to accomplish something.

 

[Khur]

I may not be the best looking guy in the world, but I would make an worse looking woman.

I work with Stephen, and long hair notwithstanding, I have to agree with this statement.