D&D 4E 4E PHB II & DMG II 1 year after release (and a new one every year after that)

[Glyfair]

Well that seems to be a thing of the past. For now we have "core" books that will be released each year. By not being promoted as "optional" and instead being "core" they take on the mantle of a necessity, rather than the optional source and setting books of the past.

Another likely definition of "core": Books not tied to a specific campaign setting.

With 3.5 the Complete series, Races series, etc. would be "core." Races of Faerun? Not core. There might be room for experimental non-setting stiff to not be "core" (Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle).

 

[Khairn]

Another likely definition of "core": Books not tied to a specific campaign setting.

With 3.5 the Complete series, Races series, etc. would be "core." Races of Faerun? Not core. There might be room for experimental non-setting stiff to not be "core" (Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle).

Absolutely true.

There are many new opportunities, some of which are really exciting. And also many new ways to seperate you from your money and add unnecessary elements into your game. The question I would ask myself is "Is this a change designed primarily to improve my game, or designed primarily to sell me more?" You can usually figure it out pretty easily, and then make a decision based on that knowledge.

 

[Vlos]

Not sure if all of you are thinking this through.

First how much content can you fit into a book? Lets take the Players Handbook? Now lets take all the "Complete ..." books. Throw out half the junk in them, then throw out half of whats left. So you have a quarter of what you started with. Now try and put that into the existing Players handbook? It just will not fit...

So what are you going to get into a Players handbook every year? A few new PrC, if that, a few new feats, maybe a race or two. But no where near the content you are use to.

Now also think about DDI, I am sure to keep on using that you WILL have to have the latest books, thus after the first year your membership will expire, unless you purchase the latest books.

So after a year you buy a new book, just to get a few new things and another year of DDI, another year passes and you decide you no longer want to spend the $100 for another set of books which offer such limited content, so you find out you can no longer access DDI and all of a sudden you can't play 4ed?

Now this is total speculation, but that is my fear. I would prefer to have new separate books, if they want to update the core books with errata, fine, but by me buying my first copy I should automatically get a new copy until they come out with a new edition.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

I think they're using "core" as in "center." The first PHB is going to have the core rules for Arcane, Divine and Martial characters; all future material on those subjects is going to branch out from that. Likewise with the PHB2, it'll supposedly have the core rules for the psionics, and any future psionic material is going to branch out from that book.

Not sure if all of you are thinking this through.

First how much content can you fit into a book? Lets take the Players Handbook? Now lets take all the "Complete ..." books. Throw out half the junk in them, then throw out half of whats left. So you have a quarter of what you started with. Now try and put that into the existing Players handbook? It just will not fit...

So what are you going to get into a Players handbook every year? A few new PrC, if that, a few new feats, maybe a race or two. But no where near the content you are use to.

They can probably fit in quite a bit, actually, if the second series doesn't rehash all the rules on combat and gameplay and skills. The first PHB will already will have rules on half a dozen races, at least 8 core classes, and three different sets of powers (including spells and feats). No reason they can do that for each PHB, especially if they, like I said, don't rehash the base ruleset.

Also, keep in mind, the PHB 2 isn't going to be a bunch of complete books mashed together, it's going to be like taking the best parts of the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum and like 1/3rd of Tome of Magic.

Now also think about DDI, I am sure to keep on using that you WILL have to have the latest books, thus after the first year your membership will expire, unless you purchase the latest books.

So after a year you buy a new book, just to get a few new things and another year of DDI, another year passes and you decide you no longer want to spend the $100 for another set of books which offer such limited content, so you find out you can no longer access DDI and all of a sudden you can't play 4ed?

That's just silly; they can get more money by letting people keep subscribing and paying that monthly fee, while tempting them with previews of cool stuff in future books compared to going "Hey, no more online content unless you pay for the new books AND pay a subscription fee." which would just piss people off and then Wizard's won't be getting that monthly fee anymore, on top of the user having not bought the books for whatever reason. Remember, you don't need any of the online material to play D&D.. It's still a tabletop game, after all.

 

[Mokona]

...add unnecessary elements into your game. The question I would ask myself is "Is this a change designed primarily to improve my game, or designed primarily to sell me more?"

It may sound unabashedly Capitalist of me but game designers need to feed their family just as much as you or I.

You already know that Wizards of the Coast cannot and will not force you to add any rule (to your home game) which you don’t like. Take a basic concept from Economics: Wizards wants you to buy another D&D book but you’re free to spend your money elsewhere . Guess what? They hope to get your money by giving you a book that you really like!

If you like their book :\ you’ll buy it and if you buy their books they’ll get some money!

Player's Handbook 2 will do a better job of giving greater happiness to more gamers than the alternative of spreading that same content out over lots of books.

 

[Khairn]

It may sound unabashedly Capitalist of me but game designers need to feed their family just as much as you or I.

You already know that Wizards of the Coast cannot and will not force you to add any rule (to your home game) which you don’t like. Take a basic concept from Economics: Wizards wants you to buy another D&D book but you’re free to spend your money elsewhere . Guess what? They hope to get your money by giving you a book that you really like!

If you like their book :\ you’ll buy it and if you buy their books they’ll get some money!

Player's Handbook 2 will do a better job of giving greater happiness to more gamers than the alternative of spreading that same content out over lots of books.

I have nothing against capitalism at all, and certainly support the idea of designers getting a fair wage. I also have no problem with WotC deciding to release a 3rd edition of D&D within an 8 year span. And if players are happy about that, more power to them.

My comment was part of point on the necessity of 3 new "core" books each and every year, not of the worth of being paid.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

*Devyn continues saying he doesn't trust WotC and adds nothing new to another thread*

West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
To your left is a dead horse decaying on the ground. Next to the horse is a stick.

> pick up stick

You are now holding a stick.

>beat teh horse

I do not understand the command "teh".

>beat the horse

You are now beating a dead horse with a stick.

 

[Jhaelen]

West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
To your left is a dead horse decaying on the ground. Next to the horse is a stick.

> pick up stick

You are now holding a stick.

>beat teh horse

I do not understand the command "teh".

>beat the horse

You are now beating a dead horse with a stick.

*ZORKED!*

 

[Khairn]

West of House
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
To your left is a dead horse decaying on the ground. Next to the horse is a stick.

> pick up stick

You are now holding a stick.

>beat teh horse

I do not understand the command "teh".

>beat the horse

You are now beating a dead horse with a stick.

<sigh>

 

[Imaro]

Well another issue I have is that by labelling what are really expansion books "core" it blurs the line between running a core game and a kitchen sink game. In 3.5 if I put up an ad saying I will be running a core book only game then everyone is on the same page as far as what I mean. If 4.0 goes with this model it becomes much more vague. This model also encourages the "it's in the core rules so I should be able to play it" mentallity that breeds arguments and pressure on the DM to allow things he may not be comfortable with into his game.

In the end I don't see a real reason for labelling anything that is not necessary a core book. It seems, IMHO a marketing ploy with little if any solid reasoning to back it up. I see it as something that could garner more sales through mistaken identity and confusion, but I want to believe WotC doesn't roll like this(even though I am aware oif it as a valid marketing strategy). A new player goes into the store to get a Player's Handbook and sees three different ones on the shelf...how does this make it easier to attract new players? If anything it causes more confusion and blurs the line between what is needed and what isn't. I think if these books were labelled something like...Character Optionssionics, Incarnum & Pact Magic or Character Options:Eberron, it would make more sense.