4E playtesting or lack thereof

[Fifth Element]

His point is that the skill challenge rules that appeared in the Dungeon Masters Guide are not the rules Massawyrm's group playtested.

No, his point appears to be that the published version of skill challenges was not playtested at all, by anyone. We simply don't know if that is true, but it seems unlikely.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I, for one am impressed with the playtesters WOTC selected, as I have seen no large amounts of rules posted anywhere or even discussed in detail.

But to the OP, why would the rules playtested need to be the rules printed? And why would WOTC restrict itself to using only playtested rules?

Yes, ina perfect world, it might be best to use material playtested. But what if each and every group of playtesters had totally different advice? Should WOTC then print one version of the rules for each playtest group? I do not htink so. Playtest is suggestions, not commandments engraved on stone tablets.

 

[amethal]

Are we really seriously discussing something asserted on a message board by someone calling himself Trollman?

Yes. Why wouldn't we?

As far as I am aware, Frank Trollman is his real name.

 

[amethal]

No, his point appears to be that the published version of skill challenges was not playtested at all, by anyone. We simply don't know if that is true, but it seems unlikely.

Frank Trollman has explained why he thinks that is the case.

I'd be interested know how come it seems unlikely to you.

 

[ST]

Frank Trollman has explained why he thinks that is the case.

I'd be interested know how come it seems unlikely to you.

Would you be willing to restate his argument in your own words, since you're advancing it? I think that would be helpful, since debating the absent Mr. Trollman based on his, from the best I could tell of reading that thread, going off and flaming people for reasons unclear to me, two months ago, on a different forum, does not seem to be a particularly valuable use of our time. That's the subtext i'm getting here, so I figured I'd make it explicit.

If you could also restate the conclusion you draw from his argument, that'd help too, because I still don't really "get" this thread. (I think it's about how the DMG version of skill challenges kinda bites, and post-morteming to see if that's due to playtesting issues? I can't see the point of discussing the obsoleted mechanics, much less *why* they were broken in the first place, so I'm hoping someone can explain where they're going with that.)

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Are we really seriously discussing something asserted on a message board by someone calling himself Trollman?

The name might be meant ironic.

You know, like 10,000 spoons on a rainy day.

 

[ExploderWizard]

The name might be meant ironic.

You know, like 10,000 spoons on a rainy day.

BUT ALL I NEED IS A KNIFE!!!!!!

Can't we also say that the errata'd rules were a free ride (when we've already paid)?

Perhaps the playtest results were the good advice- that they just didn't take.

 

[Samuel Leming]

Yes. Why wouldn't we?

As far as I am aware, Frank Trollman is his real name.

Why? Because Frank has been banned from more RPG websites than I've ever visited. Bringing him up is a good way to elevate tempers.

He often brings up valid points though. Though I'm sure the skill challenge rules were used in playtests and commented on, there's no way they were subjected to an actual analysis. The math for doing that is tedious but simple. It would be nice to know what went wrong.

 

[Windjammer]

Classic internet obfuscation. FrankTrollman uses every little trick in the book to raise a riot in that thread, is called on it more than once by the moderator (and threatened with a suspension) and somehow it's Mearls who is in the wrong? Hilarious.

I assume you've read the thread on RPGNet before you made these claims, ok? That assumption being made, I want you to link the posts in that thread to substantiate the bolded part. Please use your own skills in backing up your statements, don't refer to authorities ("the moderator") you then withdraw when convenience suits ("cross-posting from other boards that don't have the same moderation guidelines as ENW"). If I missed something deeply disingenious about Frank's posts, please point those bits in his posts out to me. Thank you.

, and on top of that insinuating that one of the site's most respected posters is lying or stupid (that's the only conclusion I can draw from your "priceless" comment).

Yes, and by doing so you violate a central rule on Enworld which reqests not to ascribe implicit intentions or motives to other posters.

I've mounted one simple claim - "no single version of skill challenges WotC released in June 2008 to June 2009 was solidly playtested" - and rather than attributing motives to me or patronizingly diagnose me with teen anger I'd kindly ask people to engage with the claim itself. Because you know what? I welcome to stand corrected on this one.

 

[Fifth Element]

Yes. Why wouldn't we?

As far as I am aware, Frank Trollman is his real name.

Just pointing out the irony.