D&D 4E 4e previews due in December

[Stoat]

As I see it, the free issues of Dungeon and Dragon that WotC has been posting are advertisements for the paid content that they intend to offer later this summer. The purpose of a preview is to convince me that the product is worth purchasing.

I'm not a hater. I want the DDI to be a resounding success. I'm interested and excited about the online content that WotC has said it intends to provide.

Unfortunately, what I've seen so far, particularly with regard to Dragon, isn't measuring up. Sure, production schedules get delayed. Sure, happens. Sure, unexpected difficulties arise. I think a good publisher takes those risks into account when it announces its schedule, and then keeps its customers informed if the schedule changes. It was apparent several weeks ago that WotC wasn't going to be able to get these preview articles up. Why keep the old announcement up on the site?

More troubling, if WotC can't publish Dungeon and Dragon on a monthly, or even regular, basis, what confidence should I have that it can keep a VTT running? Or provide the electronic enhancements that are going to be a part of all its books? Or make Gleemax the Myspace of gaming?

I want to love the DDI, but WotC won't convince me to subscribe to its service if it can't convince me that I'll get value for my money. So far, it's doing at best a mediocre job of it.

 

[Khaalis]

While I mimic much of what STOAT says, we do also have to take into account that the DDI is still not even truly in its infancy. What we have seen so far is basically PR material for 4E and a small preview of what the DDI WILL become. Currently they don't even have a concrete roadmap of how they are implementing the DDI. It is still in the design phase. Additionally, they are not yet truly working with a separate DDI staff, with all of the DDI being handled by the same people that are already wearing 4E design hats. From a business standpoint, I would say they have done admirably to date for the stage of the project. To be honest, they didn't even need to give as much as they have. I believe that as we get into the new year and the DDI project comes closer to reality, we will see a steady increase in the Quality and Quantity of DDI content with the largest flurry of content coming just pre-4E release. They are dancing a very delicate line of PR, Marketing and Design. I do not expect them to be able to pull this all off without stumbling a few times. No company is perfect. JMHO. YMMV.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The problem I have with Khaalis description of the situation is that it ignores the many months they had BEFORE the actual launch of the DDI. It's not like this is a brand new asset they just discovered. This is something they went out and decided to do months before we saw the web pages and in the process, they cancelled two well loved magazines (and for some, that's 'grudge' still goes on.).

What's potentially worse is people picking up 3.5 right now and finding out about the DDI and discovering that several components of it are little more than thinly veiled advertisements for an edition that's not going to be out for half a year and that the material they've just purchased is well, dead to the official company making it.

 

[Khaalis]

The problem I have with Khaalis description of the situation is that it ignores the many months they had BEFORE the actual launch of the DDI. It's not like this is a brand new asset they just discovered.

True, but keep in mind you are dealing with a business. They have a time schedule and a budget. Hiring people is NOT easy. This takes a lot of time and resources. In fact, if you check their site, they are STILL looking for 2 Graphic Arts & Design people and 3 Info Tech people for the company in general and specifically are still looking for their DDI Lead Software Developer Engineer. DDI doesn't roll out for another 6 months and much of it is already complete, but a lot of it still needs to be tied together.

In all reality they don't have to be giving ANY information away for free, but it is a good marketing strategy to create the hype by the previews. If they had set up all of DDI to be ready to go at GenCon and DDI were fully functional, you wouldn't be getting anything free, you'd have to subscribe. I think its pretty galling to expect so much for nothing. Again, they are a business, not the guy next door. The information we are getting is promotional material to promote 4E. It is not meant to be "publishable / paid for" content. If it was, you'd be paying.

This is something they went out and decided to do months before we saw the web pages and in the process, they cancelled two well loved magazines (and for some, that's 'grudge' still goes on.).

The 'cancellation' of Dragon and Dungeon were not done on a whim nor without a lot of thought, and a lot of bantering and bartering between the business and legal departments. It was a smart marketing move and saved both companies a LOT of money to do it the way it was done. They knew that as soon as 4E was announced that 3X related sales was going to drop. This site is living proof, having dropped 80% in sales since the announcement. It would not have been a fiscally sound decision to keep developing, producing, printing, and distributing materials that were likely not to sell. They are also under no obligation to keep presenting Dungeon/Dragon content for free but they have. Most generous of them I would say.

What's potentially worse is people picking up 3.5 right now and finding out about the DDI and discovering that several components of it are little more than thinly veiled advertisements for an edition that's not going to be out for half a year and that the material they've just purchased is well, dead to the official company making it.

I'm confused by this. 3X material doesn't have anything to do with DDI. As for people just getting into 3.5X, I personally don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone that can't do a little research. Its not like any gamer into D&D doesn't know about 4E. In fact most game shops I know have already moved 3X stock to the "old products" section, or at the very least have the promotional material for 4E out in plain site. JMHO.

 

[Beckett]

they cancelled two well loved magazines

When did they do this? I know things have been slow with the holiday, but I thought they had more articles and adventures coming out soon. I'll be a bit miffed if I don't get a Dragon 361 PDF to stick next to my 360 PDF.

 

[the Jester]

In all reality they don't have to be giving ANY information away for free, but it is a good marketing strategy to create the hype by the previews. If they had set up all of DDI to be ready to go at GenCon and DDI were fully functional, you wouldn't be getting anything free, you'd have to subscribe. I think its pretty galling to expect so much for nothing. Again, they are a business, not the guy next door. The information we are getting is promotional material to promote 4E. It is not meant to be "publishable / paid for" content. If it was, you'd be paying.

More likely, if DDI were ready to go at GenCon, WotC would still be doing a free promo period. The point of it isn't to wait until DDI is ready to start charging- it's to lure customers who would otherwise not even consider paying for it, have them take a look, and convince them that the value of DDI is such that it's worth subscribing.

The 'cancellation' of Dragon and Dungeon were not done on a whim nor without a lot of thought, and a lot of bantering and bartering between the business and legal departments. It was a smart marketing move and saved both companies a LOT of money to do it the way it was done. They knew that as soon as 4E was announced that 3X related sales was going to drop. This site is living proof, having dropped 80% in sales since the announcement. It would not have been a fiscally sound decision to keep developing, producing, printing, and distributing materials that were likely not to sell. They are also under no obligation to keep presenting Dungeon/Dragon content for free but they have. Most generous of them I would say.

Dude, WotC wasn't spending a dime on Dragon and Dungeon; that was all Paizo. They are under no obligation to give us free stuff, but they have thrown a few crumbs our way... again, in order to convince people to pay for a non-physical product that you can't read on the toilet. The free period isn't an act of corporate generosity, it's an act of smart PR and advertising.

The problem is, the DDI and digital Dragon & Dungeon mags are things that most gamers are gonna be reluctant to buy into. If WotC can't change thousands of minds relatively quickly, the DDI will die a whimpering, slow death of neglect. WotC is using the free period to try to change those minds- yet they're doing a piss-poor job of it, without any updates or explanations, and this after setting expectations very high. All the talking about it is great, but it is the showing it that will persuade people. No matter how many times you tell me you make a great steak, it doesn't taste good to hear about it.

 

[Oldtimer]

In all reality they don't have to be giving ANY information away for free, but it is a good marketing strategy to create the hype by the previews. If they had set up all of DDI to be ready to go at GenCon and DDI were fully functional, you wouldn't be getting anything free, you'd have to subscribe. I think its pretty galling to expect so much for nothing. Again, they are a business, not the guy next door. The information we are getting is promotional material to promote 4E. It is not meant to be "publishable / paid for" content. If it was, you'd be paying.

Rather - if it was, very few would be paying.

The way I see it, they are setting up a subscription service. The thing with subscriptions is that the customer gives his money in good faith and (hopefully) receives the paid merchandise over a long period of time. Without that faith, people won't pay.

That's why almost all subscription services have trial periods. The ol' "first one is free" schtick. This is the trial period when WotC will accumulate that good faith to get a lot of people to subscribe. It's the service we see now, that we will judge them by, when it becomes time to make the actual decision to subscribe or not.

Saying "this is free, don't expect to much" is false reasoning.

 

[Scribble]

This attempt to bring aggro into the thread is unwelcome. I've got to ask you to leave this thread.

Upon further reflection, I agree. What I typed was a lot more confrontational then I had intended. I apologize to all involved, and have edited my post so as not to cause any conflicts.

 

[JoeGKushner]

When did they do this? I know things have been slow with the holiday, but I thought they had more articles and adventures coming out soon. I'll be a bit miffed if I don't get a Dragon 361 PDF to stick next to my 360 PDF.

Ah, I should've put 'paper versons' of the magazines there.

Gotcha.

 

[JoeGKushner]

True, but keep in mind you are dealing with a business. They have a time schedule and a budget. Hiring people is NOT easy. This takes a lot of time and resources. In fact, if you check their site, they are STILL looking for 2 Graphic Arts & Design people and 3 Info Tech people for the company in general and specifically are still looking for their DDI Lead Software Developer Engineer. DDI doesn't roll out for another 6 months and much of it is already complete, but a lot of it still needs to be tied together.

Then they have some competency issues. Not my problem.

If a grocery store is giving away free oranges and it turns out those oranges are sour and I complain and I'm told, "they were free, what did you expect" or they're doing a huge promotion but when I get there, things arent' set up, am I as a customer in any capacity coming back? Probably not.

In all reality they don't have to be giving ANY information away for free, but it is a good marketing strategy to create the hype by the previews. If they had set up all of DDI to be ready to go at GenCon and DDI were fully functional, you wouldn't be getting anything free, you'd have to subscribe. I think its pretty galling to expect so much for nothing. Again, they are a business, not the guy next door. The information we are getting is promotional material to promote 4E. It is not meant to be "publishable / paid for" content. If it was, you'd be paying.

And it's information we would've gotten in the paper versions, along with other information for our current games if they had the foresight not to cancel the print versions of the magazines and let Paizo do what they were doing no?

The 'cancellation' of Dragon and Dungeon were not done on a whim nor without a lot of thought, and a lot of bantering and bartering between the business and legal departments. It was a smart marketing move and saved both companies a LOT of money to do it the way it was done. They knew that as soon as 4E was announced that 3X related sales was going to drop. This site is living proof, having dropped 80% in sales since the announcement. It would not have been a fiscally sound decision to keep developing, producing, printing, and distributing materials that were likely not to sell. They are also under no obligation to keep presenting Dungeon/Dragon content for free but they have. Most generous of them I would say.

If WoTC was doing it, sure. They weren't. It was Paizo. Say it with me, Paizo.

I'm confused by this. 3X material doesn't have anything to do with DDI. As for people just getting into 3.5X, I personally don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone that can't do a little research. Its not like any gamer into D&D doesn't know about 4E. In fact most game shops I know have already moved 3X stock to the "old products" section, or at the very least have the promotional material for 4E out in plain site. JMHO.

Eh? Most game shops I know (and here we're down to personal experience) as still ordering things like... you know... Elder Evils, a new sourcebook for 3.5 and will probably order the Eberron city book as well. We have several Gamer's Pradise stores (a chain) and Games Plus for about six stores total, not counting Borders, Barnes & Noble, etc... where people who walk in may see the material. It's not like WoTC is going, "Chain stores, give us you're old books. We don't want that foot traffic sales."