D&D 4E 4E Psionics

[Deset Gled]

I disagree. Look at Professor X, or Gene Gray, Jedi, Carrie, The Shadow, whathaveyou.

Psionics has always been Will over Reality. "I want it to happen, and it is made happen by the sheer force of my will". Hell, half of the flavor comes from Eastern yogi.

Ki and Psionics should not be married together. This way you can have people who want their Ninja, Samurai and Eastern Monks without having to deal with psionics, and vice versa. This way the designers can focus on making those classes kick ass without having to worry about juggling two different styles of fluff, and two different fanbases. While there is some overlap (I think Psions should get some eastern yogi flavor, and monks should have some synergy with soulknives/psychic warriros), the two shouldn't be the same.

Did you reply to the wrong post? Because you seem to be agreeing with me. And without an explanation for your examples, I can tell you that most of them are exactly the same ones I would use to show how the flavor of psionics is a wild, untrained ability.

 

[Rechan]

Did you reply to the wrong post? Because you seem to be agreeing with me. And without an explanation for your examples, I can tell you that most of them are exactly the same ones I would use to show how the flavor of psionics is a wild, untrained ability.

...

I don't see how Professor X is wild or untrained. Quite the opposite. Nor The Shadow, who had to go to some eastern mystic to get trained to do what he does.

 

[Deset Gled]

...

I don't see how Professor X is wild or untrained. Quite the opposite. Nor The Shadow, who had to go to some eastern mystic to get trained to do what he does.

All of the X-men's powers come from a wild source. They train to refine, control, and expand their powers, but none of them chose to have their powers. In fact, many mutants would love to be rid of their powers, but cannot stop them. Others, like Jean Grey and Jubilee, have almost killed themselves or others because of lack of control.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Shadow. I've heard of it, but never saw the movie or listened to the radio plays.

 

[Rechan]

All of the X-men's powers come from a wild source. They train to refine, control, and expand their powers, but none of them chose to have their powers.

That doesn't necessarily say that they are uncontrolled. It's more like a random source.

But, the impression that I have always gotten from sci-fi psionics, is that everyone has the capacity to have psychic ability - it just requires training to bring it forth and control it. Or that the talent is unique, but it must be fostered and trained to reach its full potential.

 

[Deset Gled]

But, the impression that I have always gotten from sci-fi psionics, is that everyone has the capacity to have psychic ability - it just requires training to bring it forth and control it. Or that the talent is unique, but it must be fostered and trained to reach its full potential.

Right. My point is that those are two different sources. One comes from self control, the other is a random talent that only a certain percentage gets (through heredity or mutation). And I want D+D to make a distinction between those two sources.

Also, from X-men to Star Wars to Stargate to Buffy, the second is what I associate with psionics. The first is what I associate with monks and ki.

 

[Nightmare Toilet]

I seems that the thing with magic is that the person has learned and worked on using an outside element of magic with its laws and secrets to gain power and take over people by bearing its wierd laws upon them, but with psionics, the person does not use some outside element like that but has inherent, inate power of will that with their own minds they go and take over people and force reality to what they want.

They have power in and off themselves, their own will, and maybe when it first developes things in the house start floating and they start hearing thoughts and have to learn to master it or go crazy.

Ki seems to be more like a specific type of power only generated through innner focus and meditation to be channeled a specific way and is like strenghtening a muscle of personal spirit power instead of calling on a deity for channel theirs, and eventually the person advances their personal spirit power to a level where they transcend. Maybe they can also develope psionic powers or some cross-overs, like telepathy and levitation, if they learn to focus that way.


Better?

I want to see the 4e PSIONIC Illthid.

Then there is Necro-psionics, the psionic necromancer, who can will the dead to rise and willfully channel negative energy and become a Psionic Lich. and stuff. Hopefully that can be done.

 

[GreatLemur]

Ki and Psionics should not be married together. This way you can have people who want their Ninja, Samurai and Eastern Monks without having to deal with psionics, and vice versa. This way the designers can focus on making those classes kick ass without having to worry about juggling two different styles of fluff, and two different fanbases. While there is some overlap (I think Psions should get some eastern yogi flavor, and monks should have some synergy with soulknives/psychic warriros), the two shouldn't be the same.

My own impulse is to combine ki and psionics for the sake of logic and to avoid overcrowding the power source list, but you do make a damned good point, there. Psychics and ki-wielding martial artists do have different fan bases, even in there's some overlap in their concepts. Combining the two shticks under one power source would alienate a lot of people.

 

[Nightmare Toilet]

But also think about how a color wheel has primary colors and then if two are mixed you get others. Maybe it would be interesting to have primary power sources and then things you get from combining them, which Dark Sun had some stuff like that, like Psi and Magic, Psi and Divine, Martial and Psi, Martial and Magic, etc. etc. So, ki could be a martial/divine/psi tertiary since it seems to have certain elements of those 3, to me.

edit:

I think this might be good, you choose the power source you want and then the class you get results from that. If you choose a primary like Magic you get wizard, but if you choose a secondary or tertiary then the class and its abilities you get are different, just like colors.

And also that could fit psi into core books as a power source with certain classes coming from it when mixed with other power sources, if it were done like that.

I think they should shoot for getting Psi in the core either as 4.5 in 2009 or at least by 5th edition years from now. If they do it just as another primary power source that can be mixed with others, maybe the results would work.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Personally, I love the 3.5 Psi system overall, though there are some things that need ironing out.

I'm hoping that WotC will have the monk's ki and psionic powers come from different power sources.

I'd like to see them fold Ki and Incarnum into the same thing, since both are, in some sense, harnessing internal and external life force into useful forms. In fact, I'm redesigning the Oriental Adventures classes to include MoI abilities and folding certain Ki functions into Incarnum-fueled abilities...

For 3.5Ed, at least.

Perhaps in 4Ed as well.