D&D 4E 4E respawning?

[Chibbot]

Doesn't sound like an MMO to me.

Curious -- have you played 3.x epic? I haven't, but many of the people I regularly play with are involved in an epic campaign. For fun, they keep track of things like "most damage done with a single spell" (I think the current top is up in the 30k area), most monsters killed with a single spell, most damage dealt with a single attack, most monsters killed total, etc.

One of the more interesting ones is number of deaths. Right now I believe that they are in round 5 or 6 of the combat. Several of the characters have died more times than the combat has gone through rounds.

So, its possible to see the revolving-door-of-death as an MMO-feature clone, but I see it as a feature that has existed in epic DnD (remember that levels 21+ are still considered epic) for many years.

Even in high-level non-epic 3.x DnD, death is more of an inconvenience than a danger.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Is it the norm that epic lvl characters are just assumed to die a lot and have magic ways to basically "respawn" or come back to life? The wording of Arcane Spirit seems like this is the norm for higher level play. Isn't this exactly what we DON'T want to copy from MMOs?

Nah. It would be MMO-like, if it would apply to all classes and characters. But playing a wizard is, in the end, all about "mind over matter", mastering reality, and being preoccupied telling the Laws of Physics to shut up and sit down.

Nothing says that like getting your body blown, still keep going, and then picking it up again, as if you had dropped your hat.

It's basically not only doing magic on other people, but on your body as well. And conveys the feeling of being on the way to ascend to a higher plane pretty well.

Cheers, LT.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Have people played high level D&D?

This is a game with fortune fate and revivify, people. Where dying is a matter of course at high levels, and being brought back is an equally mundane feature. If anything, this is more interesting than those spells above.

 

[RigaMortus2]

We?

Nope. I like how the 3 tier model handles death.

Yeah we...

We as in those of us who think WotC is borowing too much from MMOs. Some things work and make sense, but I think copying over a "respawning" mechanic is just as bad as those wanting a Taunt/Agro mechanic. If you do not feel this way, you are not part of "we".

 

[RigaMortus2]

Doesn't sound like an MMO to me.

Curious -- have you played 3.x epic?

Nope. It never appealed to me. Partly because it takes so long to make up a character for that level, there is so much to keep track of (especially for spellcasters) such as magic items.

The other part is because Resurrecting seems so easy. I like death to mean something. I like there to be a risk for certain actions. Making raise dead available so easily takes away the main consequence for losing a battle.

I was hoping 4E would fix epicness. I guess I'll have to see it in play to be certain...

 

[Mort_Q]

We as in those of us who think WotC is borowing too much from MMOs.

Tolkien did it first.

 

[Sammael]

Have people played high level D&D?

This is a game with fortune fate and revivify, people. Where dying is a matter of course at high levels, and being brought back is an equally mundane feature. If anything, this is more interesting than those spells above.

I've DMed a campaign from level 1 to level 20. Those non-core spells you mention never saw any use in my campaign. Yes, characters died. Yes, they got resurrected. But I made sure that their deaths were not seen as insignificant or trivial. In fact, I revolved a good part of my campaign around the death of the entire party and their destiny-fulfilling rebirth.

Making death too cheap = bad.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I don't think death will be meaningless in Epic, since just in the one quick power blurb it shows numerous ways for characters to bite the dust:

Once per day, when you die, you can detach your spirit from your body. In arcane spirit form, you heal to maximum hit points and gain the insubstantial and phasing qualities. You can cast encounter spells and at-will spells while in arcane spirit form, but you can’t cast daily spells, activate magic items, or perform rituals. If you die in arcane spirit form, you’re dead.

At the end of the encounter, after a short rest, your arcane spirit rejoins your body, if your body is still present. Your current hit point total is unchanged, but you no longer experience the other benefits and drawbacks of being in arcane spirit form.

If your body is missing, you will need other magic to return to life, but can continue adventuring in arcane spirit form if you like.

So right off the bat, it can only happen once per day, in Epic who knows what may happen with time. So the threat of death more then once in a "day" is a real possibility.

You can die for real in Spirit Form, in Epic most things should be able to deal damage to a Spirit so you can die that way your Spirit forever missing and never being able to go beyond.

Just imagine after wasting all your powers and no companions left alive and your body is gone. You become a ghost stuck in the World.

If you wish you can go beyond death and explore new avenues of RP or must embark with your companions on a new quest to claim yourself a new body.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

I kinda like the idea of people floating around adventuring as a spirit.

I don't know if anybody remembers the old Phantasie games where if your party died, some of them would come back as undead. Always thought that was cool. Never really was happy with any of the ways I tried implementing it in D&D.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Those non-core spells you mention never saw any use in my campaign.

*shrug*

AFAIC they were added through necessity. Otherwise it becomes "Stock died again? We rest for the night."