D&D 4E 4E: The Biggest Changes in any D&D Edition Switch

[Charwoman Gene]

In fact, it seems to me that the generation of players that started between 1985 and 1995 would have been more likely to NOT use minis, than the generation before it.

Started 1989-90. Using miniatures for D&D well more then 75% of the time.

 

[MaelStorm]

I played 1E and 2E (from 1983 to 1991), and almost 85% of the time we never used minis. In the beginning of 90's I saw more and more battlemat and minis. When I played Fantasy HERO, GURPS and Shadowrun afterwards (1991 to 1997) we never used minis. I almost dropped on the floor when I heard about marking and saw the warlord's power! Now, I'm buying minis to be ready for this summer.

 

[Li Shenron]

You had some great good points, but this I gotta call foul on.

The change from AD&D XP to 3E was gianormous. 3E brought unified progression tables, a unified mechanic for experience, and tied wealth and equipment to experience in a way that had never been done formally before.

Heck, even the idea that all XP would be given to the party as a whole rather than having seperate mechanics for spell research and picking pockets was a pretty big shift.

3E-4E is using the exact same system just changing up the pacing and the way monster XP is recorded and read strategically.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by XP?

You're right, I was only thinking of "how much XP you get from encounters".

The change was much bigger considering XP class progressions and wealth by level guidelines.

 

[Incenjucar]

The main change in 4E is that everyone plays at the same pace.

In prior editions, Dailies and At-Will powers were doled out in completely different ratios to all classes, while in 4E everyone is playing roughly the same ratio, so classes are weak or strong at roughly the same rate.

 

[Li Shenron]

The main change in 4E is that everyone plays at the same pace.

In prior editions, Dailies and At-Will powers were doled out in completely different ratios to all classes, while in 4E everyone is playing roughly the same ratio, so classes are weak or strong at roughly the same rate.

Yep. That's the kind of change that I really consider major. The benefit is that it's much easier to balance the game, the bad side (for me) is that playing different character is not that different anymore.

 

[Roman]

The main change in 4E is that everyone plays at the same pace.

In prior editions, Dailies and At-Will powers were doled out in completely different ratios to all classes, while in 4E everyone is playing roughly the same ratio, so classes are weak or strong at roughly the same rate.

Yes, I agree that this is a huge, huge change. For some people it is positive (better balance among the classes) and for others negative (reduced inter-class playstyle variety). Regardless of whether one loves it or hates it, however, it is a vast change.

 

[Firevalkyrie]

However much noise they make about bringing in new players, WOTC has to know that the market for 4th Edition is almost entirely existing D&D players. The recent obituaries for Gygax were very telling in this regard. Almost all of them that I read spoke about D&D in the past tense, as something that created much of todays' culture but which is not culturally important itself anymore. Much was said about how World of Warcraft wouldn't exist without Gygax, but I can't remember a single mention of an upcoming 4th Edition in the mass market press. D&D, as far as the wider culture is concerned, is something that stopped being important in the late 80s.

I recently bought some dice in the local game store, which is really a boardgaming/Magic the Gathering club with with a retail operation. The guy operating the register asked me "You still play D&D?" I had to tell him that yes, there really were people that still played PnP RPGs. He thought it had completely died out. I can't personally name anyone I know under the age of 30 who plays D&D, and I know plenty of people in their 20s.

New players simply aren't coming. Few of us want to face up to that, but we are part of a dying hobby. When the last time you saw an ad for D&D anywhere but the geek press? Nobody but the existing player base knows or cares about a 4th Edition of D&D. In fact, most of the actual player base (who don't read the online forums and don't go to Cons) neither know nor care about the 4th Edition.

And proving that anecdotal evidence is worthless, last year at two conventions I ran games at (one gaming, one general sci-fi/fantasy), a majority of my players (4/7 in one and 5/6 in the other) were 25 or under, with the youngest being an eight year old girl. None were accompanied by parents and all had a good time.

 

[Roman]

And proving that anecdotal evidence is worthless, last year at two conventions I ran games at (one gaming, one general sci-fi/fantasy), a majority of my players (4/7 in one and 5/6 in the other) were 25 or under, with the youngest being an eight year old girl. None were accompanied by parents and all had a good time.

The majority, though not all, of my players are also under 25. What's more, some of these people are new to the game. Just last month, I have introduced two new players (19 and 20 years old) to the game. True, they are not buyers and use my books, so WotC does not yet profit from them, but who knows, some of them may eventually begin buying stuff.

 

[Roman]

The biggest change: use of "crunch" and "fluff" in new edition polls.

Is that a criticism or a compliment?

 

[Lady Dragon]

In terms of fluff, yes absolutely this will be the biggest change.

But as far as crunch goes the change from 2nd to 3rd was considerate. The game moved from a addition by subtraction attitude to a pure additon attitude.

For example earlier additions of the game tried to reach class and race equality by taking something away to make up the difference. Elves and dwarves have special abilities so to make up to humans will took away their level progression.

3rd addition has a positive attitude however. Instead of taking away from elves and dwarves they add abilities to humans as in extra skills and feats. and to make up for pc's in general being more powerful they added to monsters etc.

Intil I actually see the books however I can't make a decision on which edition brought the most crunch changes.