4e: The final word

[RefinedBean]

I don't really remember New Coke that well...I believe at the time of it's release, I was too busy throwing up and chewing on things to really care. (Note: I'm talking infancy, not college)

And I get what many of you are saying. The idea of what D&D truly "is," in that pure, metaphysical, acoustic-guitar-and-granola-fuzzy-wuzzy way can't be explained by mere corporate ownership. Sure.

But like JackSmithIV said, one can't say "Well, gosh, that's just not D&D, sir! Good day!" and walk away like that's that. Because you're wrong. If you get to say what D&D is and isn't, then EVERYONE does, and that puts us right back at square one.

I'm not saying lines have to be drawn here. And everyone has the right to THINK that D&D 4E isn't truly "D&D." But posting comments to that effect on ENworld and elsewhere serves nothing because it's a purely subjective discourse. The point of this thread, I do believe, is to show the logical fallacy of debating the interpretation of an idea using only opinions.

 

[justanobody]

I don't really remember New Coke that well...I believe at the time of it's release, I was too busy throwing up and chewing on things to really care. (Note: I'm talking infancy, not college)

Thanks for making that last bit clear.

But like JackSmithIV said, one can't say "Well, gosh, that's just not D&D, sir! Good day!" and walk away like that's that. Because you're wrong. If you get to say what D&D is and isn't, then EVERYONE does, and that puts us right back at square one.

The thing is that everyone DOES get to say what D&D is, with the most powerful of complaints or compliments...their wallets.

Like the whole Coke thing, the question is which way did the wallets vote, and what is next for the thing currently named "D&D".

No matter even then what is decided, each person will still get to say what is or is not D&D by their choice to play it or not.

There is simply nothing else but that.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I don't really remember New Coke that well...I believe at the time of it's release, I was too busy throwing up and chewing on things to really care. (Note: I'm talking infancy, not college)

I too don't remember it well because I was was too busy throwing up and chewing on things to really care. But then I was in college.

 

[Henry]

I too don't remember it well because I was was too busy throwing up and chewing on things to really care. But then I was in college.

I really need to talk to Russ about getting a "rimshot" smilie over here.

 

[Tewligan]

I shot who in the what now?

 

[JackSmithIV]

Me me me me....pick me!

Sorry for being honest, but why should I care?

You sit around all day making games for a living and playing games for a living and expect sympathy for making something some don't like?

Get thicker skin if you cannot take the most severe of criticisms.

Game designers probably get paid more than most of the people that play their games do, so they should be able to take a little flak and understand that not everyone will like what they do.

Look at Scott Rouse. He doesn't write any part of the game, that I know of, but is out there defending it and WotC tooth and nail even within itself. HE doesn't yield what he believes in so why should those that disagree with a direction any company took with a product?

That is the risk every artist takes be it paintings, writing, etc that someone is not going to like what you did. So what?

...

PS: Not offended by it, just wondering why should the consumer care about anything other than the quality of the product they are buying? Did the author not get paid to do it?

I'm not talking about people not liking it, criticizing it, or not purchasing it. I'm talking about severe disrespect to the writers and designers by pretending that the community (as powerful, important, and vital as they are) retains more authorship than the authors. Yes, there is an emotional claim that is completely valid. I'm not asking you to be soft on them. Say what you like, but be decent and respectable.

Because it's just absurd. Let me demonstrate the absurdity of it:

Kanye West releases a new album on the 25th called "808s & Heartbreak", which is going to be more of a pop album than his usual rap albums. He's doing this as a rebellion against the pop stereotype that just because it's pop, it's bad (tell that to Michael Jackson). I, however, don't like this new direction, and it offends the sensibilities of my experience with Kanye West.

Therefor, it is not Kanye West!

[PS: The new album is sick ]

 

[Korgoth]

authorship

Man, are you on drugs? Authorship?! WOTC did not write D&D. Nobody whose name is on the cover of 4E books wrote D&D.

Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson wrote D&D.

Look, either D&D is the actually meaningful artistic work of its actual authors, or it's merely an empty name that is bought and sold by those whose grand artistic project is subtracting from your net worth and adding to theirs. You can't have it both ways. If it's the former, then 4E is not D&D because it has nothing to do with said project; if it's the latter, then being or not being D&D should make no difference to you because it's simply a colored chip in the idle game of millionaires.

FWIW, I don't think 3E was D&D either.

 

[RefinedBean]

Man, are you on drugs? Authorship?! WOTC did not write D&D. Nobody whose name is on the cover of 4E books wrote D&D.

Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson wrote D&D.

They created the idea of it, and they wrote a great many parts of it. But D&D has been written, refined, and elaborated on by a fantastic number of writers, who all share in and deserve the enjoyment of having been part of D&D's continual evolution.

Are you seriously telling me that Monte Cook, Mike Mearls, R.A. Salvatore, thousands of freelance and third party publishers, and everyone who's had the guts to share a homebrew setting here on ENworld shouldn't take some pride in helping grow their favorite hobby?

That's absurd, man. That's just patently absurd.

 

[D'karr]

That's absurd, man. That's just patently absurd.

Absurdity, the stuff that edition wars are made of.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Absurdity, the stuff that edition wars are made of.

How many Edition Warring Gamers does it take to change a lightbulb?

Three - one to change the lightbulb, one to decry that this lightbulb as not being a "real" lightbulb, and one to complain that previous versions of lightbulbs were much better.

Oh, and a dragon. Just 'cos.