[MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION] Thank you for all of your inputs. I'm definitely going to be making some changes as I respond.
I may go all the way back to the drawing board and design it from scratch, but for now I'm going to work off of what I've got. I am starting to get a feel for using DM's discretion over strict, explicitly stated monsters, though.
I'm aiming to have the players be level 14 by the time they fight this thing, and there's 10 of them. Using the two tables for encounter building on pg82 of DMG, a deadly level 14 encounter for 10 players has an experience threshold of 57,000, so I went with CR 23 (50,000). It was only later that I looked at what other CR 23 monsters were and realized how overpowered it was. I haven't fixed it yet, obviously.
"The tentacles are never affected by area of effect attacks or spells." I had already thought about that, but I think your phrasing is a bit more clear and concise.
Yeah, I like that idea. I'll have to look into Lair Actions, though; I'm really not all too familiar with what they are or how they work. It is definitely going to have a lair, though. That's already canon.
Yeah, I thought that might be a little overkill. Really the main reason I thought it would be cool is to hit a charger with a tentacle attack with the first, and then with the second throw the now grappled charger back at the rest of the party. A cool idea, but very probably too powerful to be fair.
That's not a bad idea. Trying to think of how I'd do that...
Would that mean a grand total of 6 OAs per combat round, none of which would be made by the balhannoth itself? Would the tentacles have their own initiative? Individually, or collectively? Would the tentacles have their own stats? On that note, would I end up making two distinct stat blocks, one for the balhannoth itself and one for its tentacles?
Now I'm comparing that prospect to what it would be currently. Potential of 20 OAs (10 players, each of which receive 2 OAs if they provoke), all using the stats of the balhannoth, including initiative. Right off the bat, I don't even have to say that SEEMS like a lot of OAs, it IS a lot of OAs. Other than that, this seems simpler and easier.
Anyways, I'm not going to make all the changes just yet, because I'd like a little bit more feedback from you before I do some of them, but here's an updated block:
Balhannoth
Large Beast Aberration CR 23 (50,000 XP)
AC 19 HP 730 (24d20 + 280) Spd. 20’
-----Attributes-----
Str 23 (+6) Dex 21 (+5) Con 18 (+4)
Int 8 (-1) Wis 16 (+3) Cha 3 (-4)
-----Abilities-----
Skills Insight +10, Stealth +12
Senses blindsight 60 ft., passive Perception 15
Languages Deepspeech
Armor Natural
Proficiency +7
-----Special Abilities-----
Flailing Tentacles The balhannoth has six tentacles. If attacked directly, they have an AC of 17 and 61 (8d8 + 24) HP. If reduced to 0 HP, the tentacle is severed or otherwise neutralized (damage done to tentacles never applies to the balhannoth). A neutralized tentacle takes a full day and a long rest to regenerate, and cannot be used until then. Area of effect attacks and spells only hit the body of the balhannoth itself, and do not affect any of the tentacles. The balhannoth has a tendency to attempt to flee from fights in which three or more of its tentacles have been neutralized.
Flurry of Blows The balhannoth may make two opportunity attacks instead of one.
Opportunist The balhannoth deals an extra 1d8 damage against targets it has advantage on attack rolls against.
Reactive The balhannoth can take one reaction on every turn in a combat.
Reality Shift (1/4Rd.) The balhannoth may teleport up to 50 feet as a bonus action. Any enemies adjacent to it before it teleports are stunned until the end of the balhannoth’s next turn unless they pass a DC 20 Wisdom saving throw, and the balhannoth automatically gains advantage on attack rolls against enemies it teleports adjacent to.
Spider Climb The balhannoth can climb across any surface, even upside down, at its full speed without the need for ability checks.
Stone Camouflage While in areas of natural or worked stone, the balhannoth has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks.
-----Actions-----
Multiattack: The balhannoth makes three tentacle attacks, and then it makes up to two slam and/or throw attacks if able.
Slam (Melee): +18, 15’, one target.
The balhannoth must have at least one creature grappled with one of its six tentacles to make this attack.
Hit: The balhannoth chooses one grappled creature to bash against the target, dealing 21 (2d8 + 12) bludgeoning damage to both creatures. The grappled creature remains grappled, and the target must pass a DC 20 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Tentacle (Melee): +18, 15’, one target.
Hit: The target takes 13 (1d8 + 9) bludgeoning damage, and must pass a DC 20 Dexterity saving throw or be grappled by one of the balhannoth’s six tentacles. On its turn, the target may spend its action to try to pass a DC 20 Strength test to escape the grapple.
Throw (Ranged): +18, 30/60’, one target.
The balhannoth must have at least one creature grappled with one of its six tentacles to make this attack.
Hit: The balhannoth chooses one grappled creature to fling at the target, dealing 31 (3d8 + 18) bludgeoning damage to both creatures and knocking them prone. The previously grappled creature lands in a space adjacent to the target, and both creatures must pass a DC 20 Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of the balhannoth’s next turn.
Miss: The balhannoth flings the chosen grappled creature within 15 feet of the target, knocking the previously grappled creature prone but dealing no damage to it.
Whipping Tentacles (Melee): +18, 15’, all targets within range.
Hit: The targets take 13 (1d8 + 9) bludgeoning damage, and the balhannoth slides the targets to any other space within the area of effect.
Really I didn't change much of anything besides the second OA having free reign. I think I'm going to take your advice and start from scratch with a Legendary flavor to it. I'll post the new block once I have it set.
IMHO, converting from 3e or 4e (which, unfortunatlely, are the only editions in which this thing supposedly existed, though honestly, I have no memory of it - camouflaged anti-magic tentacled aberration on the ceiling? I'd expect something like that to stick with me), is usually wasted effort. Design it for 5e as if it were an original monster that just came to you in a nightmare.
Which is to say, don't really design it at all. Ballpark the hps, decide on an AC, and just have it do whatever seems sufficiently cool/terrifying each round, react to the the things the PCs do dramatically, and have fun with it until you reach that tipping point where the monster had better die or the players'll get bored, and have it drop at an appropriate moment. I know, that's terrible of me to even suggest such a blatant use of DM force.
But it works, often a lot better than trying to come up with a 'right' set of numbers.
I may go all the way back to the drawing board and design it from scratch, but for now I'm going to work off of what I've got. I am starting to get a feel for using DM's discretion over strict, explicitly stated monsters, though.
Sheesh, what level are you running?
I'm aiming to have the players be level 14 by the time they fight this thing, and there's 10 of them. Using the two tables for encounter building on pg82 of DMG, a deadly level 14 encounter for 10 players has an experience threshold of 57,000, so I went with CR 23 (50,000). It was only later that I looked at what other CR 23 monsters were and realized how overpowered it was. I haven't fixed it yet, obviously.
Fun, classic stuff, here, the monster with different body parts having different AC and separate hps. Definitely keep that. It could also mitigate against the issues 5e has with lone monsters.
"If attacked directly" should mean AEs only affect the body, not the tentacles. Otherwise it'd be too easy to blow 'em all off.
"The tentacles are never affected by area of effect attacks or spells." I had already thought about that, but I think your phrasing is a bit more clear and concise.
That sounds awesome in 5e's parsimonious action economy. You could also make it Legendary and give it Lair Actions, since it's a very lair kinda critter.
Yeah, I like that idea. I'll have to look into Lair Actions, though; I'm really not all too familiar with what they are or how they work. It is definitely going to have a lair, though. That's already canon.
OTOH, I'm not sure I'd want to go /there/.
Yeah, I thought that might be a little overkill. Really the main reason I thought it would be cool is to hit a charger with a tentacle attack with the first, and then with the second throw the now grappled charger back at the rest of the party. A cool idea, but very probably too powerful to be fair.
Reasonable.
But, I'd even consider just plain having the tentacles take their own turns, including OAs & reactions.
That's not a bad idea. Trying to think of how I'd do that...
Would that mean a grand total of 6 OAs per combat round, none of which would be made by the balhannoth itself? Would the tentacles have their own initiative? Individually, or collectively? Would the tentacles have their own stats? On that note, would I end up making two distinct stat blocks, one for the balhannoth itself and one for its tentacles?
Now I'm comparing that prospect to what it would be currently. Potential of 20 OAs (10 players, each of which receive 2 OAs if they provoke), all using the stats of the balhannoth, including initiative. Right off the bat, I don't even have to say that SEEMS like a lot of OAs, it IS a lot of OAs. Other than that, this seems simpler and easier.
Anyways, I'm not going to make all the changes just yet, because I'd like a little bit more feedback from you before I do some of them, but here's an updated block:
Balhannoth
Large Beast Aberration CR 23 (50,000 XP)
AC 19 HP 730 (24d20 + 280) Spd. 20’
-----Attributes-----
Str 23 (+6) Dex 21 (+5) Con 18 (+4)
Int 8 (-1) Wis 16 (+3) Cha 3 (-4)
-----Abilities-----
Skills Insight +10, Stealth +12
Senses blindsight 60 ft., passive Perception 15
Languages Deepspeech
Armor Natural
Proficiency +7
-----Special Abilities-----
Flailing Tentacles The balhannoth has six tentacles. If attacked directly, they have an AC of 17 and 61 (8d8 + 24) HP. If reduced to 0 HP, the tentacle is severed or otherwise neutralized (damage done to tentacles never applies to the balhannoth). A neutralized tentacle takes a full day and a long rest to regenerate, and cannot be used until then. Area of effect attacks and spells only hit the body of the balhannoth itself, and do not affect any of the tentacles. The balhannoth has a tendency to attempt to flee from fights in which three or more of its tentacles have been neutralized.
Flurry of Blows The balhannoth may make two opportunity attacks instead of one.
Opportunist The balhannoth deals an extra 1d8 damage against targets it has advantage on attack rolls against.
Reactive The balhannoth can take one reaction on every turn in a combat.
Reality Shift (1/4Rd.) The balhannoth may teleport up to 50 feet as a bonus action. Any enemies adjacent to it before it teleports are stunned until the end of the balhannoth’s next turn unless they pass a DC 20 Wisdom saving throw, and the balhannoth automatically gains advantage on attack rolls against enemies it teleports adjacent to.
Spider Climb The balhannoth can climb across any surface, even upside down, at its full speed without the need for ability checks.
Stone Camouflage While in areas of natural or worked stone, the balhannoth has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks.
-----Actions-----
Multiattack: The balhannoth makes three tentacle attacks, and then it makes up to two slam and/or throw attacks if able.
Slam (Melee): +18, 15’, one target.
The balhannoth must have at least one creature grappled with one of its six tentacles to make this attack.
Hit: The balhannoth chooses one grappled creature to bash against the target, dealing 21 (2d8 + 12) bludgeoning damage to both creatures. The grappled creature remains grappled, and the target must pass a DC 20 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Tentacle (Melee): +18, 15’, one target.
Hit: The target takes 13 (1d8 + 9) bludgeoning damage, and must pass a DC 20 Dexterity saving throw or be grappled by one of the balhannoth’s six tentacles. On its turn, the target may spend its action to try to pass a DC 20 Strength test to escape the grapple.
Throw (Ranged): +18, 30/60’, one target.
The balhannoth must have at least one creature grappled with one of its six tentacles to make this attack.
Hit: The balhannoth chooses one grappled creature to fling at the target, dealing 31 (3d8 + 18) bludgeoning damage to both creatures and knocking them prone. The previously grappled creature lands in a space adjacent to the target, and both creatures must pass a DC 20 Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of the balhannoth’s next turn.
Miss: The balhannoth flings the chosen grappled creature within 15 feet of the target, knocking the previously grappled creature prone but dealing no damage to it.
Whipping Tentacles (Melee): +18, 15’, all targets within range.
Hit: The targets take 13 (1d8 + 9) bludgeoning damage, and the balhannoth slides the targets to any other space within the area of effect.
Really I didn't change much of anything besides the second OA having free reign. I think I'm going to take your advice and start from scratch with a Legendary flavor to it. I'll post the new block once I have it set.