4E value < 3E value

[GnomeWorks]

But no one has done that in this thread. On either side. You're assuming there will be a flame war, and then fanning what few sparks there may be by calling people zealots without provocation.

Man, the first few responses were full of carefully-concealed vitriol.

 

[Fifth Element]

Chillax. If you don't want to be considered a zealot, then don't engage in zealot-like activity. If you do, then expect to be called out on it; it's your problem if you're okay with that label or not.

I think the point is that your assertion that this behaviour is zealot-like is false.

Quite the slippery one, ain't ya?

I never claimed civility with the intent to hide behind it.

How does one hide behind civility? If you feel I have been uncivil, please feel free to report me. I don't think I have been, I didn't intend to be, and if I have I apologize.

But your statement that you never claimed to be civil implies you are not trying to be civil. Or were you just pointing out that you never said "I am being civil"? That is true.

 

[Scribble]

I have no stake in this edition war.

Neither do I? I do, however, enjoy these boards, so I do have a "stake" in preserving my enjoyment of the boards.

And again, if you don't like the title, then don't act that way. Simple as that. There are plenty more folk around here who like one edition over another that wouldn't be classified as zealots in my book.

In the end it's up to you how you wish to act on the boards. I'd prefer that people be able to discuss their differing opinions without someone coming in and lobbing insults. They add nothing to the discussion, and only heighten tension/ harm the boards. I like these boards, so I'd ask you to stop the insults.

 

[Fifth Element]

Man, the first few responses were full of carefully-concealed vitriol.

I can see why you'd say that, but by your own admission you fully expected there to be 4E fanboi zealots attacking the OP at every turn. I think that colours your perception a bit.

 

[JeffB]

Chillax. If you don't want to be considered a zealot, then don't engage in zealot-like activity. If you do, then expect to be called out on it; it's your problem if you're okay with that label or not..

I don't consider myself a zealot at all. I like 4E. But I like Moldvay better. I like C&C better, and several other games better than 4E. I don't take gaming too seriously at all. I do get irked by assinine comments that get thrown around here (by both sides).

I do prefer a less cluttered layout like 4E has. Not sure how that makes me or anyone else a zealot , but apparently in whatever world it is which you live in, that apparently is case. You go on doing your thing, man.

 

[GnomeWorks]

I think the point is that your assertion that this behaviour is zealot-like is false.

We have now wandered into opinion-land.

You think it is not; I think it is.

Or were you just pointing out that you never said "I am being civil"? That is true.

And that's why I said it.

 

[Fifth Element]

Regardless, it is still a reasonable position to hold. Disagree with it if you like; I probably will.

"4E is dumbed down" is a reasonable position to hold. Assuming you have something to back up your statement.

"4E is dumbed down because its word count is lower" is not reasonable. It takes more than a lower word count for something to be dumbed down.

Moreover, terms like "dumbed down" and "4E zealot" are hardly conducive to reasonable discussion.

Edit: Or "nonsense" for that matter. I apologize for supporting that one.

 

[Fenes]

I got the FRCS, and sadly, I can't even mine it for ideas - everything new it offers that would interest me I already knew from the forums. I hoped for details about the different regions and new cultures, but there's nothing.

So for me it has a lot more wasted space than other setting books I purchased - all I can use could have fit on 10% of the pages used.

 

[GnomeWorks]

I can see why you'd say that, but by your own admission you fully expected there to be 4E fanboi zealots attacking the OP at every turn. I think that colours your perception a bit.

...because it happens all the time.

"4E is dumbed down because its word count is lower" is not reasonable. It takes more than a lower word count for something to be dumbed down.

It sounds like a rather reasonable position to me. Again, we have wandered into opinion-land.

Moreover, terms like "dumbed down" and "4E zealot" are hardly conducive to reasonable discussion.

Neither is vitriol, but hey, here we are.

 

[Gothmog]

Personally, I find the 4e books to be a much greater value to me and my group for a couple reasons:

#1 The lower word count is due to less complex and more streamlined rules, and because the language in the books is more precise and accurate (using these terms in their scientific sense). While Gygaxian prose has a charm to it, that wasn't the case with the 3e books. There are no meandering sentences that take twice as many words to get the same point across. This also means that a less text-dense page is available, which is MUCH better for reference purposes during play.

#2 I'm actually USING the 4e books, and I've pulled in people to D&D who had never gamed before, and refused to play under 3e.

#3 I find the quality of ideas in the 4e books much more to my personal prefereces and playstyle than those of previous editions. I really like the Feywild, Shadowfell, Astral Sea, Primordials- the list goes on and on. And its easier for me to run 4e as a semi-horror campaign (my favored theme for gaming) due to the nature of the rules and how open-ended they are, as well as the implied setting and tone of the rules.