4e Warlocks - How Would You Fix Them?

[Felon]

I would do something along the lines of what someone around here did for the Paladin.

• All powers which used to use Constitution for their attacks now use Charisma.
• All secondary effects of powers used to be based on Intelligence. Now, for powers which used to attack with Constitution, it will be Constitution. For those that used to attack with Charisma, it will remain Intelligence.
• Star pact powers attack with Charisma and use the better of Intelligence or Constitution for their secondary effects.
• Change class features similarly.

I really think that messing around with ability score application won't do the job. The warlock really lacks a signature ability. The pact effects look neat, but need to kick in more often than they do, at least starting at the paragon levels, or else the warlock is just constantly praying to face minions.

The warlock falls on its face mostly due to having 1d6 damage at-wills. You apply the 1d6 from the curse to that, and you're still not touching the average damage of mordenkrad in the hands of a non-striker. And then there's Eldritch Blast, which really ought to just be a freebie. It's essentially a short-range longbow, so by no virtue does it constitute a good choice for an at-will.

There really ought to be some ways to trick out eldritch blast and the pacts with feats and magic items, attaching extra effects. But heck, there's not even an equivalent of iron armbands or bracers of archery for implement users.

 

[Dannager]

The warlock falls on its face mostly due to having 1d6 damage at-wills. You apply the 1d6 from the curse to that, and you're still not touching the average damage of mordenkrad in the hands of a non-striker.

A Warlock's Curse has two attributes - its added damage, and its pact boon. You cannot evaluate it solely on one half or the other.

And then there's Eldritch Blast, which really ought to just be a freebie. It's essentially a short-range longbow, so by no virtue does it constitute a good choice for an at-will.

Sure, if your longbows target Reflex.

There really ought to be some ways to trick out eldritch blast and the pacts with feats and magic items, attaching extra effects. But heck, there's not even an equivalent of iron armbands or bracers of archery for implement users.

...the Bracers of the Perfect Shot are an exact equivalent of the Iron Armbands of Power for Eldritch Blast.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I'd base all their attacks on Constitution. I'd also give each pact something like vestiges. For infernal pacts, it would be various archdevils (Dispater, Mammon, etc.). For star pacts, it would be the hungering stars (Gibbeth, Hadar, etc.). For fey pacts, it would be archfey (Prince of Frost, Tiandra, etc.). I'm not sure what a vestige equivalent for dark pact warlocks might be...

While I'm at it, I'd change the tiefling's stat bonuses to +2 Con, +2 Int, so they'd be the "best" at being infernal warlocks. I'd also change their +2 Stealth to +2 Religion (by virtue of their connection to the Nine Hells, they know a thing or two about devils and the Astral Sea).

 

[wayne62682]

IMO the big problem with the Warlock is that it's not a striker but a single-target Controller. WotC made the mistake early in 4E of declaring two things, both of which are largely incorrect:

1) Strikers focus on massive DPR
2) Controllers use AoE

The first point would be true except that we have the Warlock, who is a striker that has pretty poor DPR (there are very few mega-twinked exceptions to this), but has a fair bit of single target status effects. By contrast there's the PHB-only Wizard, who has a lot of AoE but nothing that really controls the battlefield. The Wizard was fixed with the addition of Illusion spells, and WotC clearly learned what a Controller REALLY is since they created the Invoker, who arguably is a better controller than the Wizard. The Warlock's original role has been taken over by the Sorcerer who IS a DPR machine.

Back to the Warlock, I think the main solution is to just admit that the Warlock is a debuffer, not a damage dealer, and add powers via Dragon that put them solidly in this role. The Warlock is not your primary striker. Hell, he's not your secondary striker. The Warlock is bascially a role of his own, that role being Debuffer: You target a single foe with debilitating effects that hinder their abilities and can effectively remove them as a threat. Your attacks aren't intended to heavily damage a foe, but to reduce their presence on the battlefield.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But you all know, that your bread and butter at will does 1d10 + 1d6 + stats damage.

The fey pact at-will should only be used whe someone trys to get after you. Even the infernal pact warlock usually uses eldritch strike, but uses hellish rebuke when he is near melee.

Diabolic grasp is a great encounter power which can do a lot of damage by using terrain and the fighter. And a 3d10 daily with ongong damage is also not that bad.

firey bolts is also doing a teribble lot of damage and if you aim at the ground it is an auto minion killer (i maybe won´tallow it, since i wouldn´t allow totarget the ground with cleave too)

 

[Dausuul]

After some consideration, my own thoughts on the subject:

First, get rid of Con-based powers. Throw them on Charisma instead. V-shaped classes are bad, and Constitution as an attack stat is silly; it was obviously added just because the designers felt there needed to be an option for Con-based characters.

Second, beef up pact boons. Make them into vicious single-target debuffs that don't wear off, and make it so the warlock gets his/her "cookie" on a monster being bloodied rather than killed, so you can still use your pact boon even if you're fighting a single solo monster.

Third, scrap the warlock curse damage. It's needless complication. Pump up the warlock's regular damage a little bit to compensate, but I agree with the general sentiment that the warlock should be a debuffer, not a damage-dealer.

Fourth, remove the requirement to take Eldritch Blast as an at-will.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

First, get rid of Con-based powers. Throw them on Charisma instead. V-shaped classes are bad, and Constitution as an attack stat is silly; it was obviously added just because the designers felt there needed to be an option for Con-based characters.

I could live with Cha-based warlocks, but I prefer Con - now - because it doesn't feel redundant with the sorcerer. Fluffwise, perhaps dealing with Things Man Was Not Meant To Know (tm) puts enormous strain on a person's life frce and/or body. Those with vitality and durability are best at mastering these eldritch forces.

Of course, you could justify Cha-based locks with "You need a strong ego to comprehend Things Man Was Not Meant To Know (tm)," but I do think there are advantages to the novelty of Con as an attack attribute.

Fourth, remove the requirement to take Eldritch Blast as an at-will.

Yeah, or, at the very least, don't require people to take the pact at-will. Indeed, I'd rather there be no pact based at-will powers. All warlocks should be able to flavor at-will in terms of their pact. For example, a star pact warlock using Eyebite could explain it as being "out of phase" with the target. An infernal pact warlock could explain Eyebite as a burning sensation when the target tries to see the warlock, forcing the target to turn away.

 

[WalterKovacs]

In terms of rebuilding the class:

To make it A shaped instead of V shaped: Constitution as the main stat with either charisma or intelligence as secondary stats (with perhaps a "charisma counts for light armor" clause in the latter case. The idea is that you are pumping energy that "should not be handled by mortals" through your body, and thus you require the constitution to channel it correctly, while the charisma or intelligence ties into your ability to deal with the demonic forces, etc.

Second, allow options for at-wills. With it being put firmly into the controller class, part of the schtick is versatility. So, maybe they still get forced to take their pacts at-will power, but they still get two other choices so that, like the druid, they have three at-wills to start with. Or, simply make sure they have lots of at-will options, and the ability to choose between them. Controllers have some of the most varied of at-will options.

I really like the way the vestige pact at-will works, in that different vestiges will alter how it works. Maybe instead of having a pact specific at-will, there is eldritch blast, and a variety of generic at-wills, but he eldritch blast is modded by the pact, either making it similar to the existing pact at-wills, or maybe giving it a flavor of the pact boon.

If it is no longer a striker, the curse effect needs to change. Pact boon would be changed to trigger on any enemy death (and a feat/utility/item/etc can have that also trigger on bloody, and the curse would be some sort of debuff that is either like quarrying or oath of emnity, and is a debuff of sorts. They may have different types of curses based on pacts.

Examples: Star pact -> Cursed target sheds light, being unable to benefit from concealment, or total concealment, or invisibility and provides combat advantage (basically drow's darkfire).

Fey pact -> The enemy is confused as to who is friend and who is foe. The cursed enemy is considered an ally for flanking and cannot flank with enemies.

Dark pact -> Darkness surrounds the foe. The enemy treats all targets as if they had concealment.

Finally, a lot more summoning would be going on in terms of daily powers. As a maker of pacts, you may also have certain demons, or fey creatures, or abberations, etc that you can summon. This could also include utilty powers where you bring forth a demon (or whatever is appropriate for your pact) in order to demand some service. Giving the warlock ritual casting and then having some "pact binding" rituals which have healing surge costs in place of material components.