D&D 4E 4E with less powers

[Piratecat]

My recommendation: completely decouple the powers from the flavor text. Does an attack pull someone two squares? Screw the normal description - maybe they move them by tugging on the carpet, or by dropping a chandelier that makes them jump. If you go to a purely effects-based system where they get to describe what they're doing each round, they might find it more fun.

(Doing that turned me from liking 4e to loving it.)

 

[Victim]

- a 2(W) attack that pushes or pulls an enemy into or out of melee range
-a 2(W) attack that dazes them until end of their next turn
- a 1(W) attack that knocks them prone or stuns them until next turn.

No.

 

[RangerWickett]

One simple system I was working on but decided to drop was to replace powers with bonus actions.

I mean, basically, martial encounter powers tend to be equivalent to making two attacks, or making one attack and adding a push, grab, shove, trip, etc. You could accomplish much the same thing that 4e has (at least with martial classes), by keeping the basic class abilities (hunter's quarry, fighter's mark, etc.), but instead of having powers, let martial PCs get a minor, move, and two standard actions per round.

This lets them make their own moves.

Also, if your players are amenable, add a charging "super move meter" or "limit break" or just call it "battle groove" or whatever. The meter starts off equal to 5 + the PC's level, and charges by 1 point each round you're in combat. You can trade in 5 points to get an extra standard action. This lets you pull off really cool tricks, like feinting someone, sneak attacking them, then grabbing them so they can't get away. Or grab someone, drag him to a ledge, then shove him off a cliff. Or just hit someone for a whole lot of damage at once.

Maybe give some flexibility by saying that fighters get +5 to their meter every time they get bloodied. Rangers and rogues get a +2 every time they drop a standard monster, +5 for dropping an elite or solo. Warlords grant everyone in the party a +1 bonus whenever the group bloodies a monster, +2 for elites, +5 for solos.

Handling spellcasters requires more work (a LOT more), but I think this could cover your needs in a pinch. What do you think?

 

[FireLance]

Has anyone done any work in depowering 4E? Just cutting powers out at least for non- casters and instead letting them just do 2w or 3w ect a certain number of times per or something?

Have they said that they would be OK with such an approach? If so, something like Henry's suggestions might be what you're looking for. Allow them to create effects 1/encounter or 1/day without actually calling them powers. It seems like a bit of sleight of hand to me, but hey, if it works...

 

[Mengu]

Do they like feats? You can give them feats instead:

Fighter at-will special effect feat:
Any time you hit an opponent choose one of the following effects, and apply it to the target:
1. Push taget one square
2. Gain 3 temporary hit points

Fighter advanced special effect feat:
Once per encounter, when you hit, you can do one of the following:
1. Deal 2[W] damage.
2. Knock the target down.

Fighter show down feat:
Once per day when you hit, you can do the following
1. Deal 2[W] damage and spend a healing surge

So a fighter starts with these three feats.

Would they like this?

If yes, then it's the resource management they don't like, and there are a number of solutions for that, while keeping the power system intact.

If no, then it's not the powers they don't like, it's the encounter/daily restrictions, or the hassle and complexity of keeping track of these things, in which case you really might want to stick with 3.5, importing aspects of 4.0 that you like, or look at other systems.

I vote for force feeding though. Give it a few more tries as is, and try with miniatures. Maybe it'll grown on them.

 

[keterys]

It'd be really very useful to know if they'd rather their attacks were all, say, '2W' with no frills, nothing to track - more like older editions - or if they'd prefer to describe what they do and just have it work somehow 'I slam into him from the side to knock him over the banister' to turn into 1W + push, for instance.

Then have critical hits do the more daily-ish effect.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Has anyone done any work in depowering 4E? Just cutting powers out at least for non- casters and instead letting them just do 2w or 3w ect a certain number of times per or something?

That's what the powers are. Think of the flavor text as a generic suggestion of what a power might look like, rather than a hard rule for what it must look like, and your players will find themselves free to imagine any sort of effect they like.

My recent game is an Iron Kingdoms campaign using 4e rules. I'm currently playing a ranger using the new beast master option from the Martial Handbook. But I've set it up so the "character" is a steamjack, and the "pet" is the 10-year-old boy who controls it.

The flavor text is there to support and inspire your own creativity, not serve as an obstacle to it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Moved to house rules forum

 

[CapnZapp]

I believe what the OP's players feel to be a problem is the following:

In all those games where you "only" make attacks (equivalent to melee basic and ranged basic attacks in 4E) you feel empowered to make up all the flavor yourself, as much (or little) of it as you need.

Several posters have essentially only said "play it as intended", which to me doesn't feel as if the poster have even read the OP's issue. Things like "play another game", "use minis and a grid" and the like are decidedly unhelpful, at least in my mind.

Instead, what about this:
1) remove all powers, but use their flavor text as examples of the things your class can do. That is, the list is turned from a constricted list (This is ALL you can do) to an open list of suggestions (These are things you can do, but feel free to use your imagination to come up with more)
2) instead, you simply do melee basic and ranged basic attacks.
3) Have a look at page 42 of the DMG. It tells you how much damage your melee basic and ranged basic attacks should do for different levels. Whether this damage is delivered through a sword, an arrow or a bolt of electricity is immaterial.
4) You might want to use a simple power point system to emulate how some 4E attacks are more powerful than others while still explaining why you can't use only the most powerful ones. (There are several elaborate power point systems in this forum, Fan Creations and House Rules, if you're interested)
5) At-wills correspond to "normal damage expression, low", encounter powers to "normal damage expression, high", and dailies to "limited damage expression, medium". (Looking at the DMGp42 table)

This is only the faintest glimmer of a house-rule, but hopefully you get the idea.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Well, yer basic hero'n level encoun'er power packs a 2[W] punch with no specials. Paraguns pack 3[W] and eppies pack 4[W]. Maybe one 'r two dice more if'n yer feelin' wicked.

Yer basic 1-5 daily power packs a 3[W] punch with no specials. 6-10 packs 4[W]...yer smart so you get th' idea...on up to 26-30 packing a fat ol' 8[W] punch. One 'r two extra fer that 'extra pasty' monster feel.