4E - WotC's equivalent to the New World of Darkness?

[Mercurius]

In some sense it seems that the Sacred Cows that have been killed with 4E are more fluff than crunch. Sure, there has been a pretty radical rules revision, but the most drastic changes seem to be setting oriented (e.g. the Great Wheel), both with the default "Points of Light" setting instead of Greyhawk and what we've heard about the forthcoming 4E Forgotten Realms.

So it came to mind that Wizard's 4E is somewhat similar to White Wolf's New World of Darkness (or the new Bond films, for that matter): a re-boot that is receiving mixed reviews. Sure, every edition is a re-boot of sorts, but not as drastically in terms of fluff and tone.

A few questions to ponder: Was the New World of Darkness better received than 4E thus far? Will 4E pay off in the long run? Will enough Old Timers switch over AND enough Newbies come in? Of course it remains to be seen, but I'm wondering if anyone else sees the correlation between 4E and NWOD, and whether the NWOD re-boot's success (or lack thereof) might be somewhat indicative of how 4E might fare.

 

[Skywalker]

A few questions to ponder: Was the New World of Darkness better received than 4E thus far? Will 4E pay off in the long run? Will enough Old Timers switch over AND enough Newbies come in? Of course it remains to be seen, but I'm wondering if anyone else sees the correlation between 4E and NWOD, and whether the NWOD re-boot's success (or lack thereof) might be somewhat indicative of how 4E might fare.

FWIW I consider 3e to be a far bigger reboot than 4e will be. Most of the stuff we see in 4e is derived from 3e. The introduction of a Skill system, discrete powers and feats, tactical combat system, prestige/paragon classes, increased power level etc all really have their roots in 3e.

So, yes 4e is a reboot, however, it isn't the same as nWoD.

I wouldn't be surprised that in years to come people don't see 4e as a revision of 3e, the same way that 2e was a revision of 1e. 3e wasn't really a revision of 1e or 2e as much as it was a reboot.

 

[Aus_Snow]

In some sense it seems that the Sacred Cows that have been killed with 4E are more fluff than crunch.

I would place these the other way around. Besides, the fluff is generally easier to 'mend'. Radical crunch diversions, not so much. Oh sure, still possible. Just nowhere near as easy. IMO, and all that.

A few questions to ponder: Was the New World of Darkness better received than 4E thus far? Will 4E pay off in the long run? Will enough Old Timers switch over AND enough Newbies come in? Of course it remains to be seen, but I'm wondering if anyone else sees the correlation between 4E and NWOD, and whether the NWOD re-boot's success (or lack thereof) might be somewhat indicative of how 4E might fare.

In order: probably, but not by a landslide, kinda thing; maybe; maybe; and if nWoD was as different to oWoD as 4e is to 3e. . . there might be some kind of correlation. Or not.

But, personally, I would say that nWoD is vastly more similar to oWoD than 4e is to 3e, in terms of mechanics.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I think a lot more people run World of Darkness in the World of Darkness than run D&D in the D&D cosmology.

Stuff like great wheel was rarely relevant to my games -- and half the campaign settings I used were points of light anyway, and certainly only rarely the default setting.

 

[PeterWeller]

FWIW, the last Bond was a "return to the roots." Of all Bond films, it was the most like the books.

 

[small pumpkin man]

FWIW, the last Bond was a "return to the roots." Of all Bond films, it was the most like the books.

It also got some of the best reviews for a bond movie in ages. So yes, I think it's a good analogy, allthough not the one the OP meant.

 

[Najo]

The new world of darkness took some good IP and flushed it down the crapper. alot of the cool elements of the OWod is missing from the NWod.

With the new D&D, they took the best of the old stuff and reworked the quirky stuff so it all flowed together well. They kept the cool stuff.

 

[Campbell]

The new world of darkness took some good IP and flushed it down the crapper. alot of the cool elements of the OWod is missing from the NWod.

With the new D&D, they took the best of the old stuff and reworked the quirky stuff so it all flowed together well. They kept the cool stuff.

I disagree. The New World of Darkness took alot of craptastic IP and flushed it down the toilet.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

There are actually some common aspects between the two (and OWoD with 4e).

NWoD gave more ambiguous and less concrete setting material, to allow for easier modulation of the setting. 4e's PoL setting is less concrete and has very loose fluff for similar reasons.

They both are pursuing more narrative perspectives and lessened the amount of dice rolls in combat, as well as speeding it up.

Has their New Series per Year, and 4e has New Setting per Year.

Has some Per-Scene Powers like Per-Encounter Powers in 4e.

Both have employed a new setting and have taken names, rules, mechanics of the old but given fresh twist or slab of paint. For example, Lasombra became Mekhet, High Elves became Eladrin, and Nosferatu are still Nosferatu but work differently like Tieflings became Tieflings that work differently.

NWoD decreased the number of different "races" in each game compared to before, but concentrated on fleshing them out more. Which can be correlated to 4e and classes.

Both have a form of social-system.

Both have some form of rituals.

Probably more that will come to me later on.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

The new world of darkness took some good IP and flushed it down the crapper. alot of the cool elements of the OWod is missing from the NWod.

With the new D&D, they took the best of the old stuff and reworked the quirky stuff so it all flowed together well. They kept the cool stuff.

Agree with the first part completely, second part I'd agree mostly with. I wish they would have either kept 9 alignments, dropped it to three (good, evil, unaligned), or removed it all together. 5 alignments feels clunky.

Pretty much, I agree with everything else though.