D&D 4E 4th Edition and the 'Adventuring Day'

gorice

Hero
A question for people who are knowledgeable about 4th Ed., from one who isn't: how did attrition work in 4th, if at all? Were combats completely discrete set-pieces, or was there some expectation that you chain them together in order to grind down PCs' resources?

If the latter: how did you actually do this in play? We all know the problems with getting attrition to work outside dungeons in 5th, so I'm interested to see how the black sheep edition managed it.
 

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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
In 4e all of the classes (pre-Essentials) had the exact same amount of at-will, encounter, and daily powers with the possible exception of a class feature. (With the exception of some Utility powers, but that's a different story.) So no matter how long or short the adventuring day was, it was balanced between all of the classes.

At-wills are what you expect - something you can do as much as you like, better than a basic attack and themed to your class. Workhorses.

Encounter powers would come back after a 5 minute short rest - basically you were able to catch your breath unless you were immediately going into a chase sequence or reinforcements - anything that counted as a break gave them back to you.

Dailies were more powerful.

Also, characters had Healing Surges that gave back about 25% of their HPs. Various healing effects triggered these and added a small rider or bonus. So it wasn't that classes with more HPs took up more healing.

EDIT: Added in the part about class features in the top as it was pointing out there as minor differences.
 
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Voadam

Legend
Also, characters had Healing Surges that gave back about 25% of their HPs. Various healing effects triggered these and added a small rider or bonus. So it wasn't that classes with more HPs took up more healing.
More, the tough classes had more healing surges as well as more hp. So front line tank fighters and paladins were designed to be front liners with high AC, high hp, and a higher number of healing surges to soak up damage than skirmishing rogues and rangers who were more maneuverable and did more damage.

The front liners might end up taking more of the healing anyway as they were the ones designed to be targets, often with defender powers to incentivize opponents to target them instead of squishier companions.
 

Voadam

Legend
Healing surges and dailies were the two big adventuring day limitations.

Some people nova'd their dailies right away. Some hoarded them for boss fights or emergency we-are-about-to-die situations. Some spread out their dailies across how many encounters they expected to face in a day.

In my experience a number of fights are balanced around an expectation of using healing to keep going without dropping. Pushing on without healing surges was fairly risky as fights could be baseline designed to drive you to need a healing surge or two not to drop.

Also if you are not familiar with 4e there is almost no in combat healing without a healing surge, most every healing power or item allows and requires a target to use a healing surge of theirs to heal.

Out of combat in 4e a long rest heals all wounds and refreshes all healing surges and dailies.
 

gorice

Hero
Thanks for the replies!

Was there some expectation as to how often long rests were possible? Put another way, could you still have balanced fights if you only had one per day? I'm trying to understand what the norm was (if there was one). I know that your'e supposed to have several combats between rests in 5th (though most people don't), and I'm wondering how 4th handled the '5 minute adventuring day' problem, if it was a problem at all.
 

Red Castle

Adventurer
I never had a problem with adventuring day in 4th edition, it could sometimes be only 1 encounter, sometimes 3. I balance the encounters difficulty accordingly. If it’s gonna be just 1 encounter, it’s gonna be a really hard one that still push the players; if it’s 3 encounters, I’ll make them a little easier (but still hard so that the players feel challenged).

One thing to keep in mind is, like previously said, every classes used the same power distribution (at-will, encounters, daily, utility), so there is not some class that are ‘better’ when there is fewer encounter or when there’s a lot of encounters. They all have exactly the same ressources, so there is no problem of one class feeling cheated if there is only one encounter and vice-versa.

Also, combat are extremely well balanced, so it’s easy for the DM to build an encounter that will be very challenging even if there is only one encounter, so you don’t feel forced to have to make multiple encounter in one day to challenge your players.

Finally, even if your players still have a lot of healing surge, healing during combat is still limited. Each player can do one Second Wind action that will allow them to heal a quarter HP. Leader class that can give heal via their basic encounter power are limited in their use per combat (only two use of healing word at heroic tier that will heal a quarter +bonus). Then there is a couple of powersthat can also allows you to, but the thing is, regardless of if you do 1 or 4 encounter per day, you won’t have more healing per encounter if you fight less. Think of it as if most of your power reset after each combat (except for the dailies) so you start every fresh.
 

Red Castle

Adventurer
Oh, another thing… while daily powers are very nice, they are not game breaking either. So if a player use one of their daily early, he doesn’t feel the need to rest to get it back before the next encounter… player classes are not built around their daily powers, they are still very deadly even without them.

And there was also the milestone… every 2 encounters, players got one action point back… although you also got one after a long rest so technically, it didn’t really push players to continue, but it was still nice…
 

gorice

Hero
Oh, another thing… while daily powers are very nice, they are not game breaking either. So if a player use one of their daily early, he doesn’t feel the need to rest to get it back before the next encounter… player classes are not built around their daily powers, they are still very deadly even without them.

And there was also the milestone… every 2 encounters, players got one action point back… although you also got one after a long rest so technically, it didn’t really push players to continue, but it was still nice…
Oh that's interesting. Thanks for your help! 4th completely passed me by at the time, but it seems like it did a lot of interesting things.
 

Retreater

Legend
I ran the majority of my 4E games in D&D Encounters organized play. Each "adventuring day" was a chapter of the season, and each chapter spanned (I think) 3-4 sessions of play. Each session included some role-playing, skill usage, and a single thrilling combat. The chapter itself could span days of time in the game world.
This may have been an artificial construct, but it set everyone's expectations and made sure the party's abilities were balanced.
 

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