D&D 3E/3.5 3rd Edition Revisited - Better play with the power of hindsight?

[Pedantic]

In my experience casters often were either in the back row and did not need to move or were caught in melee and could only do a five foot step when casting. The times you wanted to move and cast were fairly rare.

The perception that it is a detriment is pretty big though.

Conceptually the big detriment for sorcerers for me was the being behind a level on top level spells so most every other level they were limited to lower level spells. It made them a definite step down from cleric, druid, and wizard options in power potential.

I recall it being a pretty common house rule to bring sorcerer progression in line and remove the casting time penalty. It was generally agreed by the end that, if anything, the sorcerer deserved compensation in the form of their extra slots per level for the decreased flexibility of a known spell list.

 

[Alzrius]

In my experience casters often were either in the back row and did not need to move or were caught in melee and could only do a five foot step when casting. The times you wanted to move and cast were fairly rare.

The perception that it is a detriment is pretty big though.

Conceptually the big detriment for sorcerers for me was the being behind a level on top level spells so most every other level they were limited to lower level spells. It made them a definite step down from cleric, druid, and wizard options in power potential.

Touch spells were where I think it was most of an issue. If you were in the back row, and wanted to buff a party member who was fighting on the front lines, you'd want to be able to cast the spell, move up, and deliver the touch all in one round, rather than wasting two rounds to get it done (if you were more than five feet away).

I suppose you could have something like a spectral hand up to deliver spells for you, but I don't think that saves you much in the overall action economy, since you have to take an action to cast it and it has a comparatively short duration (1 minute/level).

 

[Voadam]

Touch spells were where I think it was most of an issue. If you were in the back row, and wanted to buff a party member who was fighting on the front lines, you'd want to be able to cast the spell, move up, and deliver the touch all in one round, rather than wasting two rounds to get it done (if you were more than five feet away).

I suppose you could have something like a spectral hand up to deliver spells for you, but I don't think that saves you much in the overall action economy, since you have to take an action to cast it and it has a comparatively short duration (1 minute/level).

Yeah, but that is only an issue if you want to be casting a touch spell with a metamagic. It can come up, but a fairly corner case situation. Most sorcerer touch buff spells metamagic would not do a lot in the middle of combat that I can think of. Maybe an empowered bull's strength in 3.0 when you got a d4+1 roll.

 

[Alzrius]

I recall it being a pretty common house rule to bring sorcerer progression in line and remove the casting time penalty.

I think the part about them not being able to use the Quicken Spell feat played a lot into the casting time penalty aspect of it. As far as metamagic feats go, it's one of the most useful (albeit with the biggest level penalty), and so having it flat-out denied to spontaneous casters probably rubbed a lot of people the wrong way on principle.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I will say I prefer the 5e caster progression. It's still not quite right against fighters but it is waaaaaayyyyyy more balanced than 3e wizards having 4 slots of all levels at 20th. Sorcerers having 6/level and knowing 34 leveled spells is just madness. And I say this as someone playing a 5e full caster (bard 15). I know the 5e caster gets infinite cantrips but being able to teleport a dozen times a day is just a totally different scope of power.

I would totally drop 5e casters into 3e.

 

[Voadam]

I would totally drop 5e casters into 3e.

I think 5e concentration would work great in 3e games, reducing buff stacking and limiting offensive magic to one ongoing effect, still leaving room for lots of zaps and heals.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

@kigmatzomat Great to hear someone running a DL game and making the setting their own.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think 5e concentration would work great in 3e games, reducing buff stacking and limiting offensive magic to one ongoing effect, still leaving room for lots of zaps and heals.

On some spells a great idea.

 

[Alzrius]

Mongoose Publishing had some really interesting books in their Encyclopaedia Arcane series. They had books focused on expanding existing tropes, like the Necromancer and Conjurer, as well as books that introduced innovative and thematic alternative magical approaches, like Star Magic, which I particularly liked. It looks like they are still available as eBooks.

This got me looking back at my copy of Encyclopedia Arcane: Necromancy, because I thought it was there, but it turns out to have been from Mongoose Publishing's The Slayer's Guide to Undead (affiliate link) instead:

Gary Gygax (who worked on The Slayer's Guide to Undead) wrote an in-character note in that book (as "Zagig the Mad Archmage") saying that no, mummies are not animated by positive energy, and that he made a mistake when he said so before. Page 47, for those interested.

 

[James Gasik]

This got me looking back at my copy of Encyclopedia Arcane: Necromancy, because I thought it was there, but it turns out to have been from Mongoose Publishing's The Slayer's Guide to Undead (affiliate link) instead:

Gary Gygax (who worked on The Slayer's Guide to Undead) wrote an in-character note in that book (as "Zagig the Mad Archmage") saying that no, mummies are not animated by positive energy, and that he made a mistake when he said so before. Page 47, for those interested.

I guess there goes my favorite talking point in the "all undead are evil because negative energy" debate.