TSR Why would anyone want to play 1e?

Just curious what game where you talking about earlier when you where talking about a 2nd edition clone or osr?
For Gold and Glory.


I know what is "gritty" is going to be subjective, and hard to define. Everyone is going to have their different idea because grit by nature in this context is entirely subjective. And it's easily changed based on DM style. I've played 1e adventures that felt the opposite of gritty for me (Monty Haul games), and I've played 5e games that felt really gritty (Tomb of Annihilation).

The idea that 2e isn't really built for the "gritty" dungeon crawl doesn't sit with me for several reasons, like those I gave above. And I'll just say the best TSR dungeon crawl adventure happened to be 2e. I'll just leave this here ;)

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And the biggest megadungeon was also 2e:
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D&D has never in any edition been genuinely gritty. Hit points are anti-grit. Gritty is Call of Cthulhu, WFRP, or even Blades in the Dark where you have to live with consequences. The only consequence in D&D that's on the table 95% of the time is death (and here comes Sigby, brother of Rigby)

But 1e had a gritty tone and was designed for mercenary dungeon crawling. 2e had a high fantasy tone and the rules it ditched or deprecated from B/X were precisely the ones that made 1e good for mercenary dungeon crawling.
The general sanitization of 2e acted to file off some of the gritty edges from 1e as well; in process changing the tone a bit away from war and a bit toward sport.
 


It does. And yet (anecdotally) I almost never saw them used. Probably in part because they didn't give rules for recruiting and paying them.
I didn’t see them used either in 2e but I had started with 1e and B/X in 81 and never saw them used then either. For my experience it was always about the PCs and not about PCs with their hired help.

I think it is another area where experiences vary widely.
 

I didn’t see them used either in 2e but I had started with 1e and B/X in 81 and never saw them used then either. For my experience it was always about the PCs and not about PCs with their hired help.

I think it is another area where experiences vary widely.
We used them in 1980-82 (BX and AD&D). Mostly at low levels and with groups of 4-5 players instead of the recommended 6 to 8 for modules.

I don't recall using them with 2e. Instead, there were NPCs which tagged along for a while and left when their goal had been attained.
 

For me it's another area where I feel like 2E lets down new DMs by not giving clear guidance. It prioritizes "you can do it however you want" over teaching how to run the game and then offering variations to try once you have the baseline. Of course, there may have really been no consensus baseline by that point, 15 years after OD&D sprang out of wargaming, and 5 years after Dragonlance established a heroic narrative-focused agenda of play.

Having quasi-expendable auxiliary characters to bump up your numbers makes a great deal of sense if you're playing any TSR edition with fewer than 8 PCs. But running a small squad of secondary characters alongside the PCs doesn't make nearly as much sense if your focus is on an epic story about a few heroic PCs.

For the latter mode, doing what the WotC editions do, making the PCs stronger and the death rules more forgiving, is the logical choice. 2E instead defaults to weaker ability score generation and higher lethality death rules than 1E, while reducing the rules support for hiring help and for playing more cautiously and avoiding fights. Of course in practice nearly everyone house ruled the ability score generation and used the optional death at -10 death's door rule, thus supporting a more heroic tone by taking a step toward what WotC would eventually do, with stronger PCs and more forgiving death rules.
 

Regarding henchmen and hirelings - when I played D&D as a teenager we didn't use them as players, but we usually had large parties and didn't think much about logistics or "realism" when playing. Henchmen would be a drain on treasure and XP and I didn't have the DM chops to cultivate those kinds of player-NPC relationships.

The idea of henching and hiring grew on me while reading Knights of the Dinner Table in the 00's.

Today, I recently started an AD&D game with a relatively small party (4-5) and they are running through Hommelet which has some pretty deadly encounters. So in the village, as word spread that they were planning an expedition, I had some mercenaries and villagers ask the party if they were hiring. The module also has several named NPCs who are explicitly for hire with different payment conditions (e.g. the M-U wants to keep any scrolls found). So the expeditions to the moathouse had about 8-10 people. Some of those NPCs could become henchmen or henchwomen if they have chemistry with one of the PCs.

The group is having fun with this aspect of the game but it probably wouldn't have occurred to them to hire people if I hadn't shoved a bunch of NPCs under their noses at the inn. It's definitely an old-school gaming trope.
 

When I was running my 1e Temple game the total party number varied widely but was often just a core four PCs. The one NPC they hired in Hommelette, it was solely a setup to get him alone and kill him for the magic that the drow cleric/MU detected on him. They got a +1 dagger out of him.
 


1e had some rules and guidelines (in the DMG, I think) around recruiting and treatment of henches, but I think pay was intended to be negotiated each time between the hiring PC and the hench.
1e DMG page 35:

Cost Of Successful Employment:
In addition to the costs of getting prospective henchmen to seek employment, the player character desiring to hire one or more of them must be prepared to make a substantial offer which is comprised of the following considerations:
Initial Payment: Not less than 100 gold pieces per level of the applicant must be offered. This will give a base 25% interest in accepting the position. For each additional 100 gold pieces, interest increases 10% to a maximum of 55%.
Equipment: The prospective henchman must be provided with complete equipment according to his or her class or classes. Any magic items included will make the character more interested in accepting the position, assuming he or she can use such items, of course. For each magic item (exclude arrows except in groups of 5), increase interest by 15%.
Quarters and Support: The PC must offer reasonable housing and promise free food and clothing as needed to the prospective henchman. This simply adds 5% to interest level when offered, but failure to promise such quarters and support will lower interest by 25%.
Activity and Shares: The player character must state what amount of activity the prospective henchman will be given, and what duties and position is envisioned for him or her. Furthermore, the prospective henchman must be told what share of treasure he or she can expect from adventuring, and what division of magic items can be expected.
Characteristics of Henchmen: The characteristics, including alignment, of NPC applicants are discussed under the section, PERSONAE OF NONPLAYER CHARACTERS. You, as DM, can decide how best to reveal all of this information to the PC, some by relating what is “seen”, some by actually playing the role of the applicant. If the character asks specific questions, remember that the applicant might take this amiss.

0-level expert hirelings were different

1e DMG page 29:

Monthly Costs: The cost of each type of expert hireling is shown on the list.
This amount is based on all the associated expenditures which go with the
position — salary or wage, uniform or clothing, housing, food, and sundry
equipment used routinely by the hireling. Exception: The cost does not include
arms and armor of soldiers, and these items must be furnished to mercenaries
over and above other costs. Certain other hirelings incur costs over and above
the normal also, when they engage in their occupations. These are indicated on
the table by an asterisk (*).
EXPERT HIRELINGS TABLE OF MONTHLY COSTS IN GOLD PIECES
Occupation or Profession Cost
alchemist 300
armorer 100*
blacksmith 30
engineer-architect 100*
engineer-artillerist 150
engineer-sapper/miner 150
jeweler-gemcutter 100*
mercenary soldier —
archer (longbow) 4
archer (shortbow) 2
artillerist 5
captain special
crossbowman 2
footman, heavy 2
footman, light 1
footman, pikeman 3
hobilar, heavy 3
hobilar, light 2
horseman, archer 6
horseman, crossbowman 4
horseman, heavy 6
horseman, light 3
horseman, medium 4
lieutenant special
sapper/miner 4
serjeant special
slinger 3
sage special
scribe 15
ship crew special
ship master special
spy special
steward/castellan special
weapon maker 100*
* Cost does not include all remuneration or special fees. Add 10% of the
usual cost of items handled or made by these hirelings on a per job basis,
i.e. an armorer makes a suit of plate mail which has a normal cost of 400
gold pieces, so 10% of that sum (40 g.p.) is added to the costs of
maintaining the blacksmith.
 

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