4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Alzrius matey!

What, the Garganaut and the Infinitaur - to say nothing of the other Anomalies - won't make the transition to 4E? (Though I suppose that's possible, since we have yet to see them in 3.5 )

I imagine they will be solo threats for Overgods rather than standard threats for Time Lords.

Immortal Tier (31-40)

Adventures: Immortal adventures are epoch events, with both widespread and lasting consequences that can reshape planar geography. Immortal characters explore the minds of dreaming deities, make war on pantheons, and tread the dark corners of the universe where they battle the savage gigantes, otherworldly alien intelligences like the dreaded world flayers, the terrible four horsemen of the apocalypse, soul-thirsty demiliches, insidious ancient baatorians and godslayers such as the feared Ma Yuan. The dragons they encounter are the gods and goddesses of their kind, like Tiamat herself.

Sidereal Tier (41-50)

Adventures: Sidereal adventures can involve the fate of the universe with reality being altered or possibly destroyed by those ultimately victorious. Sidereal characters venture in not only interdimensional space, but also in time where they battle savage cyberdemons, the ferocious Magog, time policing inevitables, unchained evil primordials, entropic umbrals, and even the right hands of fate itself; the calculating intelligibles. They might face an awesome space dragon in whose wake planets perish.

Primordial Tier (51-60)

Adventures: Primordial adventures go beyond time and space, encompassing both negative and higher dimensions where sentient realities populate super-universes. Primordial characters search for answers beyond the universe itself, where they encounter savage anomalies, ferocious infinitaurs, fearless neutronium golems, anti-beings from negative dimensions and even retired supreme beings. Universe devouring interdimensional dragons, such as quasar dragons seek to erase you from reality.

 

[Fieari]

U_K, what do you think about the Tarrasque being an abomination in 4e?

What do you think about the new Phane? I'm personally underwhelmed with its abilities, given that it can only slow foes, not actually send them elsewhere in time, freeze them in time, or elsewise. I'm also disappointed they don't do chronal damage, but that was your idea anyway.

Maybe what I'm really looking for is a Solo version of the Phane. That way, it could get multiple actions via time travel, which would fit in with the Solo theme.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Again, there's a difference between a creature's tactical and strategic capabilities. The powers that are practical to use in a firefight and the powers that are practical to use when you have a few minutes to spare need not overlap much at all.

 

[Alzrius]

U_K, what's your reaction to the current news about the GSL - that using it (presumably) carries a "poison pill" clause that you must give up all current and future use of the OGL (so long as you want to use the GSL).

Under that guideline, you'd have to permanently remove all of the 3.5 IH books, and wouldn't be able to release anymore, once you released a 4E IH book.

Is that something you'd be willing to do?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy mate!

U_K, what do you think about the Tarrasque being an abomination in 4e?

I think its cool and sort of makes sense.

What do you think about the new Phane? I'm personally underwhelmed with its abilities, given that it can only slow foes, not actually send them elsewhere in time, freeze them in time, or elsewise.

Well sending PCs elsewhere in time takes them out of the game which = no fun. Similarly with freezing someone in time. It can still stun them of course. The time Duplicate thing always did seem overly complex so I am glad it went. Though what they could have done was let it create a Time Duplicate of itself (giving it twice the number of attacks while retaining the same hp total).

For me the monster is lacking one or two options (for an elite monster). Added to which its average damage output is about half what I expect to see from such a monster (giving it two base attacks seems the most plausible solution).

The powers it does have I quite like, but it just seems to be lacking any real options.

The War Devil is also ridiculously underpowered for a 22nd-level Brute, and something akin to 3d12+8 +5 ongoing would be more appropriate (as its base attack).

I'm also disappointed they don't do chronal damage, but that was your idea anyway.

I can't remember who thought of what first, I thought I got the idea from them, although I just put a (temporal) twist on it.

Maybe what I'm really looking for is a Solo version of the Phane. That way, it could get multiple actions via time travel, which would fit in with the Solo theme.

Indeed.

 

[Upper_Krust]

U_K, what's your reaction to the current news about the GSL - that using it (presumably) carries a "poison pill" clause that you must give up all current and future use of the OGL (so long as you want to use the GSL).

Under that guideline, you'd have to permanently remove all of the 3.5 IH books, and wouldn't be able to release anymore, once you released a 4E IH book.

Is that something you'd be willing to do?

The short answer is yes. But I may possibly delay releasing my 4E stuff a while longer to finish some 3.5E stuff (I sort of want to get Grimoire out 'there' first).

As most of you know, I have been pro-4E from the start. Its not only looking like a far better system to me, especially at higher levels, it also appears much simpler and therefore quicker to design for. Two aspects I can't (and won't) ignore.

One way of supporting 3.5E stuff would of course be conversions by you guys which we could still add to the website (I think) or these forums.

One area I am unsure about is the print versions of future 3.5 books...including Ascension. Not sure a sale window of about 6-8 months is a viable one for Mongoose or if they can even sell 3.5 stuff after June!? But I will chat to them over the coming week and see whats happening.

 

[Anabstercorian]

The War Devil is also ridiculously underpowered for a 22nd-level Brute, and something akin to 3d12+8 +5 ongoing would be more appropriate (as its base attack).

...Compared to what , exactly?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya Anabstercorian mate!

...Compared to what , exactly?

Compared to all other brutes seen so far whose average base damage basically all conforms (give or take 1 point) to something like:

(5* + 1/2 Level) = Base Damage
x2 for Brutes
x2 for Elites (an elite brute would therefore be x4)

*Or d8 if you prefer

NB. Sometimes total base damage is divided between multiple attacks.

 

[Alzrius]

One area I am unsure about is the print versions of future 3.5 books...including Ascension. Not sure a sale window of about 6-8 months is a viable one for Mongoose or if they can even sell 3.5 stuff after June!? But I will chat to them over the coming week and see whats happening.

I can't speak for Mongoose - to say nothing of how we haven't seen the finalized GSL yet - but things may actually go the opposite way, U_K.

Mongoose seems pretty invested in their OGL lines (a la RuneQuest) and may decide that, if the GSL forces them to choose, they'll choose to stay with the OGL. In that case, you wouldn't be able to publish 4E materials through them, since they'd have to avoid the GSL completely.

That's all hypothetical, though. Hopefully something'll give and it won't come to that.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I can't speak for Mongoose - to say nothing of how we haven't seen the finalized GSL yet - but things may actually go the opposite way, U_K.

Mongoose seems pretty invested in their OGL lines (a la RuneQuest) and may decide that, if the GSL forces them to choose, they'll choose to stay with the OGL. In that case, you wouldn't be able to publish 4E materials through them, since they'd have to avoid the GSL completely.

That's all hypothetical, though. Hopefully something'll give and it won't come to that.

Well whatever Mongoose do it won't affect any of my pdfs and if the worst came to the worst I envision I could probably find a new publisher for the print versions.

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

I'm not privy to Mongoose sales (other than my own) so I cannot say whether they would see 4E updates of existing lines (such as Runequest) might turn better profit than continued support of the current system.

I can definately see why the likes of Monte Cook and Paizo are so reticent, since it means giving up still profitable lines and a vast back catalogue. Its a lot to weigh up for those big companies. Whereas its a very simple decision for me.

...off to work I go.