4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook
- Thread starter Upper_Krust
- Start date
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi Fieari mate! 
I really like the idea of non-good angels. Breathes new life into them. Been giving the angels a little thought and it seems that the Elohim-Sandalphon would be servants of the Primordials/Overgods, while the Ophanim-Metatron would be servants of the Eternals (or more specifically the Demiurge) which sort of makes sense given Metatron is the "Voice of God" or the voice of the creator in this case.
Sandalphon would be the Avatar of Metatron and may himself have an Avatar called Adam Qadmon.
Fieari said:
I really like the idea of non-good angels. Breathes new life into them. Been giving the angels a little thought and it seems that the Elohim-Sandalphon would be servants of the Primordials/Overgods, while the Ophanim-Metatron would be servants of the Eternals (or more specifically the Demiurge) which sort of makes sense given Metatron is the "Voice of God" or the voice of the creator in this case.
Sandalphon would be the Avatar of Metatron and may himself have an Avatar called Adam Qadmon.
Anabstercorian
First Post
I love the way we reflexively put things in to systems like this. We're so human.
Evilmonkeygod
First Post
I know its kinda crazy, and perhaps this forum isnt the right place, but what are your thoughts UK on using Paizo's Pathfinder system as opposed to 4e?
Center-of-All
First Post
Poor. I don't anticipate Paizo going to anything epic themselves, and Pathfinder is so unimaginatively similar to 3.5 that it would basically amount to him continuing using the same system he has for the past few years, something he's already expressed his distaste of.
Upper_Krust
Legend
Howdy Evilmonkeygod!
I honestly don't see how they could make enough worthwhile changes without rewriting everything...in which case you may as well use 4th Edition.
Virtually every element of 3/3.5E feels bloated.
I already made numerous changes to 3.5: Epic Spell System, Epic Item/Artifact Limit, Challenge Rating System, Metamartial Combat and so on. But I don't think its enough to make epic D&D the fun game to both DM and play in, that I want it to be.
Are Paizo going to rewrite every class, every prestige class, every spell, every monster!? No, of course they are not. Which means we are still going to be left with much of the same baggage at the end of the day.
I wish Paizo all the best, but as Center-of-all mentioned, they don't cater to epic games/gamers. They don't know (or don't care) about the complexities involved therein, thus I cannot see them taking steps to make such games easier and/or more fun.
Evilmonkeygod said:
I honestly don't see how they could make enough worthwhile changes without rewriting everything...in which case you may as well use 4th Edition.
Virtually every element of 3/3.5E feels bloated.
I already made numerous changes to 3.5: Epic Spell System, Epic Item/Artifact Limit, Challenge Rating System, Metamartial Combat and so on. But I don't think its enough to make epic D&D the fun game to both DM and play in, that I want it to be.
Are Paizo going to rewrite every class, every prestige class, every spell, every monster!? No, of course they are not. Which means we are still going to be left with much of the same baggage at the end of the day.
I wish Paizo all the best, but as Center-of-all mentioned, they don't cater to epic games/gamers. They don't know (or don't care) about the complexities involved therein, thus I cannot see them taking steps to make such games easier and/or more fun.
Anabstercorian
First Post
Upper Krust, what's your take on the ' epic destinies' toolkit? It seems like you could quite literally set up your rules so that characters do a complete rebuild at 31st level after they tick over from Epic to Divine without creating too much of a bother.
Fieari
Explorer
The 3.5 destinies don't seem all that customizable, although that doesn't mean the 4e ones won't be. If less customizing is the standard though, perhaps each portfolio... or at least group of portfolios should have it's own destiny. By group of portfolios, I mean you could have one destiny for Elemental control (including Fire, Cold, Lightning, etc), and then another for Body/Mind perfection (Str, Dex, Con, Wis, Int, Cha), and another for Nature stuff (Fertility, Healing, etc) and so forth.
It seems less interesting to just have one "Ascension" destiny, especially if EVERYONE has to take it in order to get to the next tier.
Hrm. Actually, that's another thought to consider. Perhaps the rules should reflect the ability for ANY epic destiny to ascend, not just the ones specifically focused on ascending. The one about becoming invisible, for instance, where you're a shaft of sunlight or a breath of wind or a shadow on the wall at all times, just listening to people tell your stories until even you believe them... that's a really cool destiny, and could work QUITE well into the Immortal's Handbook. But how would it MESH is the question...
It seems less interesting to just have one "Ascension" destiny, especially if EVERYONE has to take it in order to get to the next tier.
Hrm. Actually, that's another thought to consider. Perhaps the rules should reflect the ability for ANY epic destiny to ascend, not just the ones specifically focused on ascending. The one about becoming invisible, for instance, where you're a shaft of sunlight or a breath of wind or a shadow on the wall at all times, just listening to people tell your stories until even you believe them... that's a really cool destiny, and could work QUITE well into the Immortal's Handbook. But how would it MESH is the question...
Upper_Krust
Legend
Howdy Anabstercorian dude!
I think the Epic Destinies are fascinating, nice mechanic too. I thought up six ideas for future possible epic desitines late last night.
I'm not sure about the idea of a complete rebuild at 31st, however, that could be one option.
At the moment I am favouring the idea that you no longer gain class progression after 30th-level. Instead you gain Portfolio progression in 5-level stints between 31st-50th-level.
So 31-35 is Portfolio #1, 36-40 is portfolio #2 and so on.
This way you can take a possible four portfolios (I know people don't like the two portfolio limit I have).
In addition, between 31st-40th you also get whats called a Pantheon Pledge (similar to the Paragon Path/Epic Destiny mechanic).
Between 41st-50th you can join one of the immortal organisations (such as the Illuminati, Suicidium, Legion of the Damned and so forth). These organisations are above the Pantheons.
So for instance a 40th-level immortal PC could be:
30th-level Paladin, 5-level Sun Portfolio, 5-level War Portfolio
Paragon Path: Justiciar
Epic Destiny: Blade of Ragnarok
Pantheon Pledge: Norse Pantheon
The portfolio powers would eventually replace your Class powers (at a rate of 1 encounter and 1 daily per 5 levels). This mimics the idea that immortals are leaving their mortal lives further behind.
Similarly the 51st-70th level spread would be about Dimensions/Planes rather than portfolios. With the Dimensional powers supplanting Portfolio Powers as the character gradually becomes one with the plane/universe.
Of course all this is just my current thinking, I am sure my ideas may evolve between now and when I actually start some work on it.
Anabstercorian said:
I think the Epic Destinies are fascinating, nice mechanic too. I thought up six ideas for future possible epic desitines late last night.
I'm not sure about the idea of a complete rebuild at 31st, however, that could be one option.
At the moment I am favouring the idea that you no longer gain class progression after 30th-level. Instead you gain Portfolio progression in 5-level stints between 31st-50th-level.
So 31-35 is Portfolio #1, 36-40 is portfolio #2 and so on.
This way you can take a possible four portfolios (I know people don't like the two portfolio limit I have).
In addition, between 31st-40th you also get whats called a Pantheon Pledge (similar to the Paragon Path/Epic Destiny mechanic).
Between 41st-50th you can join one of the immortal organisations (such as the Illuminati, Suicidium, Legion of the Damned and so forth). These organisations are above the Pantheons.
So for instance a 40th-level immortal PC could be:
30th-level Paladin, 5-level Sun Portfolio, 5-level War Portfolio
Paragon Path: Justiciar
Epic Destiny: Blade of Ragnarok
Pantheon Pledge: Norse Pantheon
The portfolio powers would eventually replace your Class powers (at a rate of 1 encounter and 1 daily per 5 levels). This mimics the idea that immortals are leaving their mortal lives further behind.
Similarly the 51st-70th level spread would be about Dimensions/Planes rather than portfolios. With the Dimensional powers supplanting Portfolio Powers as the character gradually becomes one with the plane/universe.
Of course all this is just my current thinking, I am sure my ideas may evolve between now and when I actually start some work on it.
