4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Naming the New Tiers

Hi all!

Still mulling over what I would call the new tiers of play. At the moment I am favouring:

31-40 = Exalted Tier (Quasi-deities & Demigods)
41-50 = Immortal Tier

51-60 = Sidereal Tier
61-70 = Primordial Tier

71-80 = Eternal Tier
81-90 = ?

91-100 = Supernal Tier

Any thoughts?

 

[Center-of-All]

Well, I think that the Lesser/Greater deity split is still in 4E, so perhaps that empty space could be filled by splitting the Immortal tier and bumping the others up a spot. Unless you specifically placed them such that the Primordials are solo enemies for Immortals, and I can see even that working out.

I suppose Exarchs are in the Exalted tier?

Secondly, I think you have to remember that deities should be more versatile, and in addition the farther 'into' immortality you go, the less relevance your mortal life should have.

You make some good points, but I think the big wedge here is that I cannot agree with this concept.

 

[historian]

Hi all!

Still mulling over what I would call the new tiers of play. At the moment I am favouring:

31-40 = Exalted Tier (Quasi-deities & Demigods)
41-50 = Immortal Tier

51-60 = Sidereal Tier
61-70 = Primordial Tier

71-80 = Eternal Tier
81-90 = ?

91-100 = Supernal Tier

Any thoughts?

Hey U_K!

I might refer to levels 81-90 as the "Multiversal Tier."

What can I say, I'm the master of the obvious.

On a different note it seems slightly unusual, albeit only slightly, that the Multiverse has basically two different levels of divinity (Time and High Lord) while the Metaverse doesn't really have its own contingent.

Maybe therein lies the answer?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again!

Well, I think that the Lesser/Greater deity split is still in 4E, so perhaps that empty space could be filled by splitting the Immortal tier and bumping the others up a spot. Unless you specifically placed them such that the Primordials are solo enemies for Immortals, and I can see even that working out.

They are specifically placed so that they roughly parallel WotC's thoughts on deities. Orcus is a level 33 solo monster, while Moradin was touted to be possibly something like level 38 (again a solo encounter).

Therefore we can conclude that there should be about 5 levels between the different ranks of divinity. Since we know Intermediate Deities no longer exist we can hypothesize...

Quasi-deity = 31-35
Demigod = 36-40
(Lesser) God = 41-45
Greater God = 46-50

Solo monsters are effectively 9 levels lower than standard monsters (In terms of XP). Thusly, Orcus as a PC would be a 42nd-level (Lesser) God.

So converting the above to solo encounters we get:

Quasi-deity = 22-26 solo encounter
Demigod = 27-31 solo encounter
(Lesser) God = 32-36 solo encounter
Greater God = 37-41 solo encounter

Personally I am thinking that deities should always have solo stats with the following caveats:

1) Those stats may sometimes include servants (for instance Odin's stats would include Sliepnir, Freke, Gere, Huginn and Muninn).

2) Certain deities may have secondary stats at elite or standard levels for use in poignant groups - such as Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu for instance.

I suppose Exarchs are in the Exalted tier?

At this juncture I don't even know what an Exarch is, beyond the fact that they are mentioned in Worlds & Monsters.

You make some good points, but I think the big wedge here is that I cannot agree with this concept.

Okay, well am I to assume you are now at least neutral on the other points I explained?

Which bit of my comment do you disagrree with, that immortals should be more versatile? Or that the farther into immortality you go the less relevance your mortal career should have?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Howdy historian mate!

Hope you have been keeping well?

I might refer to levels 81-90 as the "Multiversal Tier."

What can I say, I'm the master of the obvious.

On a different note it seems slightly unusual, albeit only slightly, that the Multiverse has basically two different levels of divinity (Time and High Lord) while the Metaverse doesn't really have its own contingent.

Maybe therein lies the answer?

I'm not overly fond of 'multiversal' to be honest. That said, I will have a while to mull it over because I plan on concentrating on immortal stuff first (in an effort to get things done quicker) before working on sidereals and eternals. Did someone say Sidereals Handbook...surely not.

 

[historian]

Howdy historian mate!

Hope you have been keeping well?

I've been fine dude how about you?

I'm not overly fond of 'multiversal' to be honest.

Yeah, it rather stinks when I think about it.

I'm trying to separate cart from horse here. Is there a conceptual need for divinity between Eternal and Supernal, or are you focused on having levels that go to 100 rather than 90 (these go to 11 )?

Either way I really believe the bigger issue is what divinity resides in the Metaverse. Both types of Eternals live and love in the Multiverse. Every dimension in the Kosmos has some form of inherent divinity besides the Metaverse as far as I can tell.

Intersting aside; your new structure contemplates stats for the Supernal(s) I presume because it/they are assigned levels?

 

[Alzrius]

At this juncture I don't even know what an Exarch is, beyond the fact that they are mentioned in Worlds & Monsters.

The following quote was on a WotC column, though it seems to have since been deleted. I found it reprinted in an archive:

The exarchs are often called demigods or heroes, and many are ascended mortal servants of greater gods, brought up from the world to serve as agents of their divine masters. Many, but not all, attract worshipers of their own, and they have some ability to grant spells, but are more often simply conduits from the mortal world to the attention of the higher gods. For example, the druids of Gulthandor pay homage to the Lion God, but in reality the character's divine spells are being granted by Nobanion's patron, Silvanus. Unlike true deities, exarchs are not bound to live in Astral Dominions with their patrons. Like Nobanion, many choose to live on the Material Plane, more directly engaged in the lives of their mortal followers.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey historian mate!

I've been fine dude how about you?

Doing great actually, got back with my girlfriend about a few weeks ago (out on a hot date last night), part time job is going well (got a lot of holiday time coming up), another trip to London and Gencon UK in August, Mongoose just told me they'll support anything I want to do with 4th Edition, they are doing a softcover reprint of the Epic Bestiary, got a good chunk o' change in the bank, hired an artist to take responsibility for 2/3rds the art in future books, some of the songs for Guitar Hero: Aerosmith sound challenging (didn't think I was going to like that one), bought myself a digital art pad and been experimenting with digital painting for future stuff, 4th Edition is just looking better and better and my ideas for it are overflowing..."Lemme at it".

Its all looking pretty rosy. Now if I can just finish all the books I want to do, get that D&D movie script(s) finished and turned into a movie and get hired as the next Mighty Thor comic writer and movie script(s) writer my work here will be done and I can ascend to a higher plane.

Yeah, it rather stinks when I think about it.

Word.

I'm trying to separate cart from horse here. Is there a conceptual need for divinity between Eternal and Supernal, or are you focused on having levels that go to 100 rather than 90 (these go to 11 )?

They'll probably never materialise. There'll be Sidereals/Primordial NPCs for the Immortals and Eternal/Supernal NPCs for the Sidereals/Primordials, but I am not sure Eternal/Supernal PCs will get much coverage, but I'll see what the demand is like when the other things fall into place.

Either way I really believe the bigger issue is what divinity resides in the Metaverse. Both types of Eternals live and love in the Multiverse. Every dimension in the Kosmos has some form of inherent divinity besides the Metaverse as far as I can tell.

Well the metaverse is more to do with probability - what if - divergence of existing lines rather than a seperate big place of its own (like the multiverse). However, you have sparked something in my mind thats assessing the possibility of beings that prey on divergent timelines. Improbability Dragon. Impossibles. Thesaurus Rex...and of course the Spectrals/Mazzaroth.

Intersting aside; your new structure contemplates stats for the Supernal(s) I presume because it/they are assigned levels?

Not really, I was just slapping it down for completeness, which actually opens up the possibility that I could use Eternal/Supernal for the Time Lords/High Lords and then just have the Supreme Being in a class of its own.

 

[Upper_Krust]

The following quote was on a WotC column, though it seems to have since been deleted. I found it reprinted in an archive:

Hey thanks for that Alzrius! Exalted might be a good word for such a tier of play then, fits nicely. I love it when a plan comes together.

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

Doing great actually, got back with my girlfriend about a few weeks ago (out on a hot date last night), part time job is going well (got a lot of holiday time coming up), another trip to London and Gencon UK in August, Mongoose just told me they'll support anything I want to do with 4th Edition, they are doing a softcover reprint of the Epic Bestiary, got a good chunk o' change in the bank, hired an artist to take responsibility for 2/3rds the art in future books, some of the songs for Guitar Hero: Aerosmith sound challenging (didn't think I was going to like that one), bought myself a digital art pad and been experimenting with digital painting for future stuff, 4th Edition is just looking better and better and my ideas for it are overflowing..."Lemme at it".

Its all looking pretty rosy. Now if I can just finish all the books I want to do, get that D&D movie script(s) finished and turned into a movie and get hired as the next Mighty Thor comic writer and movie script(s) writer my work here will be done and I can ascend to a higher plane.

That's a wonderful report. I am really happy things are going so well for you.

They'll probably never materialise. There'll be Sidereals/Primordial NPCs for the Immortals and Eternal/Supernal NPCs for the Sidereals/Primordials, but I am not sure Eternal/Supernal PCs will get much coverage, but I'll see what the demand is like when the other things fall into place.

I hear you.

My sense is that 4E will interact a bit better than its predecessor. Who knows?

Well the metaverse is more to do with probability - what if - divergence of existing lines rather than a seperate big place of its own (like the multiverse). However, you have sparked something in my mind thats assessing the possibility of beings that prey on divergent timelines. Improbability Dragon. Impossibles. Thesaurus Rex...and of course the Spectrals/Mazzaroth.

Aptly put; I think you'll want to consider that even if you don't get around to statting them as the metaphysical construct is, well, seminal.

I believe Marvel has begun to adopt the term "Megaverse" to express a somewhat similar, although not identical, idea.

Not really, I was just slapping it down for completeness, which actually opens up the possibility that I could use Eternal/Supernal for the Time Lords/High Lords and then just have the Supreme Being in a class of its own.

I think that is a good option because I don't really see a need for an intermediate divinity between a High Lord and the Supreme Being given the High Lord's infinite advancement possibilities.