4th Edition D&D

[Cosworth]

What I would like to see in 4e.

Bring gaming into the 21st century. I don't think it's a huge assumption to say that the majority of DM's out there use computers when developing material. I would also hazard a guess that the majority of gamers have access to a computer. Why not cater to that?

Hear, hear

 

[JustaPlayer]

Whatever the new edition is like, I'm now convinced it's comming soon. The kinds of books coming out at this point seem very much like the late 2e ones.

 

[Lanefan]

2. The greatest change that I would make would be to cut down the number of core classes. There are too many core classes now, when all of the supplements are taken into consideration, and even some of the PHB core classes are unnecessary. There really only need be three or four base classes: Fighter/Warrior, Rogue/Thief/Expert, and Wizard/Mage/Spellcaster (and maybe Cleric).

I'd prefer to go the opposite route; to have a reasonable number (say, 10-20) of "core" classes to choose from and very, very few - if any - PrC's.

3. I would like to see the tenuous distinction between arcane and divine magic dropped once and for all. It gets less and less significant with each edition. Cleric spheres in 2e and domains in 3e give access to a great number of spells which were once the sole province of Wizards. The main guiding principle now is "Wizards can't heal," which still doesn't make any sense.

Again, go the other way - make the distinction mean something again...even to the point of having shared spells work differently. Example: Wizards and Clerics both have access to Dispel Magic as a spell, and always have had...but why not make the Wizard version much less effective vs. divine magic and the Cleric version almost unable to touch arcane magic?

The only real reason for Clerics in D&D is so that PCs can be healed.

The solution? Reduce or eliminate the game's reliance on magical healing. If characters didn't have to be continually healed by magical means, then Clerics wouldn't be as necessary. ( ... ) The current (and historical) damage model of D&D requires magical healing in order to avoid the game grinding to a halt while the party recovers from every encounter. And if this isn't as much of an issue, then the game doesn't really need a Cleric.

I've never had much problem with the game providing a mechanic (Clerics) to fix various kinds of damage. Even if you allow resting etc. to give back more h.p. in less time, who's going to raise the dead? Cure diseases? Neutralize poison? That, and having the means to get healed allows one to wade into combat...it's just more fun that way!

5. Get rid of Gnomes. In over 20 years of gaming, I've personally seen a total of one Gnome character. YMMV, but it's always been a pretty unappealing and redundant choice to me. Pick a dwarf or a halfling and quit sitting on the fence. Either replace it with a more interesting racial choice, or just (god forbid) don't have as many choices of character race.

If I did this in my game I'd have a revolt on my hands...some of the most successful characters we've had are Gnomes. But when did Gnomes get so large? They used to be smaller than Hobb...er, Halflings. I'm not a huge Gnome fan either, but I'd keep them as a core race, along with Human, Elf, Dwarf, Hobbit, Part-Orc, and Part-Elf. Anything else should either not exist (Part-Ogre) or require some fancy dice rolling on obscure tables to achieve...depending on setting, of course - in a Greek-based setting, a Centaur PC makes far more sense than a Hobbit...

8. Provide guidelines and/or alternate rules systems (or methods of scaling up or down) in the DMG for running games with a different tone than the standard D&D rules assume. What is a world like where magic is commonplace? What would a low-magic setting be like?

Though in general I dislike supplements, this would be one area worthy of its own book.

9. Create a new "default" setting for D&D that isn't Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, or Eberron. It doesn't need to be a large setting, perhaps just a small area of a continent (like the "Known World" of the B, X, CM sets) that can be fleshed out or just used for inspiration.

In other words, re-kindle Mystara.

10. Give the spell system a bit more flavour. This is something that has been lost since 1e. The Druid spell list was very different in flavour than the Cleric list. Illusionists had a very different spell list than Magic-Users; many of the most powerful illusion spells were not even available to general Magic-Users, and most illusion spells were accessible to Illusionists at a lower level. Specialist Wizards in 2e and 3e are realy bland, and even general Wizards suffer from a lack of flavour, with their "kitchen sink" approach to spells. There is a lot of crossover in spell lists now. Perhaps have spells acquired along a specific "path" in which more powerful variants of a spell cannot be learned without mastering the preceeding spells. Should you suddenly be able to learn Summon Monster III without having even practiced the basics of Summon Monster I? Shouldn't Burning Hands be a logical predecessor to Fireball? Or maybe spells themselves should be more scalable. Or have the base "Wizard" class be more of an apprentice or generalist, and only members of specific prestige classes (such as a "Grand Illusionist") are able to cast the most powerful spells of any given specialized field of magical study.

Bloody brilliant! Hear, Hear!

Lanefan

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

First, I'd like to see all 4E threads strung up and burned alive. Secondly, if 4E does rip itself from the womb of its mother and spring upon the world, I'd like it to be a Skills and Powers based system whereby you can customize your character w/out the use of archetypal classes.

 

[librarius_arcana]

First, I'd like to see all 4E threads strung up and burned alive.

So why take part in something you don't like?

Secondly, if 4E does rip itself from the womb of its mother and spring upon the world, I'd like it to be a Skills and Powers based system whereby you can customize your character w/out the use of archetypal classes.

See my other thread in House rules, "BAB to Skill", it sorta moves in that direction
(or get M&M )

 

[philreed]

Whatever the new edition is like, I'm now convinced it's comming soon. The kinds of books coming out at this point seem very much like the late 2e ones.

I've talked to a few different people now and a 4e announcement at GenCon wouldn't shock me at all.

 

[Kanegrundar]

I've talked to a few different people now and a 4e announcement at GenCon wouldn't shock me at all.

The more I think about it, the better I feel about 4E. With 4E coming out, I can focus on M&M releases, minis, and well, just having more money. Plus, I'm sure that the PDF market for 3.5 will continue at least for a while, so it's not like I'd totally be without new 3E material.

 

[philreed]

Plus, I'm sure that the PDF market for 3.5 will continue at least for a while, so it's not like I'd totally be without new 3E material.

I think this will depend on what 4e actually turns out to be. If it takes another step down the path to dedicated minis game then I agree that 3.5 PDF support may be profitable (though I doubt the d20 logo will be usable). If 4e remains an RPG more than a minis game then a large segment of the audience will splinter more than it already has.

 

[Kanegrundar]

I think this will depend on what 4e actually turns out to be. If it takes another step down the path to dedicated minis game then I agree that 3.5 PDF support may be profitable (though I doubt the d20 logo will be usable). If 4e remains an RPG more than a minis game then a large segment of the audience will splinter more than it already has.

You're likely right. However, if 4E does end up being a closed system, it won't matter much. I would expect many, if not most, of the 3rd party publishers to move to other venues or use the OGL to make their own games (ala GR with M&M), but I don't doubt that there will be a few that will still put out the occasional 3E product. If 4E ends up an open system much like 3E, then I would expect just about everybody will move along with new system. After all, it will be the edition that most people will end up playing.

 

[Stalker0]

If 4E ends up an open system much like 3E, then I would expect just about everybody will move along with new system. After all, it will be the edition that most people will end up playing.

I would agree, look at how fast books moved to 3.5