So you're done with D&D but still want to play D&Dish fantasy...

[aramis erak]

Meaning no disrespect, but all I've heard of this game (read the rules back in the 90's is all I know, really) is that it is convoluted and perhaps even more un-unified in dice mechanics than AD&D - and RIFTS should be even "worse". So I'm genuinely curious as to the truth to this and how it plays.

Rifts and Palladium Fantasy play fairly well, for a 1981 game design. d100 ≤ skill for non-combat, 1d20+(skill based mod) > 4 for combat. Note that I'm only going to talk about 1e Revised, as it's the one I have run. Have it both in PDF and dead tree.

Anyway...
Palladium Fantasy's core is skill driven. Lacking pSDC, SDC is purely armor SDC. On attack rolls of R≥5 & R < AR, damage goes to SDC; on rolls of R≥AR, damage to HP. Parries/Dodges can negate hits; roll better than the attack.

Total HP is (Level)d6+(Physical Endurance). Damages compare to AD&D.

The one thing that many will find problematic is the lack of interpersonal skills; that's a direct design consideration by Siembieda, and thus an intentional oversight. They don't exist because he thinks only player/GM Roleplay should fill that role. It's a valid design decision, just not a popular one these days.

Is it in the D&D Dungeon Fantasy Genre? It can be. It also supports most of the same genres as AD&D did.
Does it balance the same? Hell no.

Note: 2nd edition adds "personal SDC" - that is, SDC that isn't armor linked, but padds out between armor and HP. It also adds notes on using the critters with RIFTs.

Rifts plays just as smoothly, but has pSDC, MegaDamage, personal MegaDamage, and a few other mechanical issues due to bolted-on mechanics.

All palladium games use the same core combat and skill mechanics. Most add pSDC, many add MegaDamage.

 

[Imagine That TTRPG]

I enjoy the crunchiness of PF. That might be because I started with AD&D 1e and ended with D&D 3.5e. I noticed a major trend towards rules-lite systems. I ran Story Day with my kids, which I employ a semi-rules-lite d20 system where we would each get to be the GM and tell wildly different interactive stories, so I get the appeal. How do people maintain deep and lasting campaigns in rules-lite systems? Which are the best ones? I like the look of Broken Empires, but it seems niche. Are there any that scratch that D&D-ish itch? I'm not fishing for ideas, I promise. My system is crunchy as peanut brittle, and I'm not here to shill. My daughter hates the crunch, but wants to GM for her rules-lite table. She's got her own world but needs a friendly system. I hope I'm not too far off topic.

 

[dbm]

I like the look of Broken Empires, but it seems niche.

I’m a backer of The Broken Empires (TBE) and have been following pretty much all the info shared on it.

Just to check your initial understanding on the system: it isn’t rules lite. It is sim-lite which means it is a simulationist system but lighter than systems like Harn, Runequest, or GURPS. It’s probably a similar level of overall ‘crunch’ or system weight to 5e (though we don’t know for sure, yet).

TBE is a system which has its own game world included, however the indications are that it should be easy to port it to another world as long as you are happy with how magic and divine powers are handled (so like D&D in that respect).

There looks to be plenty of room for mechanical character growth in TBE, similar to how characters would grown in RQ, GURPS or Dragonbane; which is to say there are no levels and characters advance their skills or other abilities directly instead.

 

[Imagine That TTRPG]

I’m a backer of The Broken Empires (TBE) and have been following pretty much all the info shared on it.

Just to check your initial understanding on the system: it isn’t rules lite. It is sim-lite which means it is a simulationist system but lighter than systems like Harn, Runequest, or GURPS. It’s probably a similar level of overall ‘crunch’ or system weight to 5e (though we don’t know for sure, yet).

TBE is a system which has its own game world included, however the indications are that it should be easy to port it to another world as long as you are happy with how magic and divine powers are handled (so like D&D in that respect).

There looks to be plenty of room for mechanical character growth in TBE, similar to how characters would grown in RQ, GURPS or Dragonbane; which is to say there are no levels and characters advance their skills or other abilities directly instead.

Thanks for the clarification. Seems like I had my terminology off. The Broken Empires (TBE) being sim-lite rather than rules-lite helps me place it on the crunch spectrum. From what you’ve described so far I’m reading Skill-based, roll-under d20 core, so no big lookup tables. Advancement tied to skill use/downtime ticks, no levels, but still meaningful growth. Location-based wounds + action-point economy, so combat is gritty but not a bookkeeping nightmare. Magic & divine powers driven by resource pools (Fatigue, Favor, etc.) that can be reskinned for other settings. That puts it mechanically somewhere around 5e for weight, just pointed more toward simulation than abstraction. If that’s accurate, I think my daughter could handle it: she’s allergic to “peanut-brittle" crunch,” but she’s fine tracking one or two resource pools as long as the resolution loop stays kinda fast. I'm glad you're backing them. I hope they kill it, and I think they are.

 

[dbm]

The system is d% blackjack, where you want to roll under your skill but high. You earn success levels equal to the ‘tens’ die of your roll, and many rolls seem to be opposed where you compare success levels between the two parties.

The magic system is very interesting IMO. Arcane magic is verb / noun similar to Ars Magica but its own implementation. There is a concept that the more overt a magical effect is, the more reality ‘pushes back’ against the caster. Divine magic is very different. Godbound appeal to their deity and make a piety roll to see if they succeed, but the GM decides what the god does in response to that petition. And after character creation the Godbound doesn’t know what their piety score is, so they have to regularly engage in the tenants of their faith to keep topping it up. It’s different and very flavourful.

 

[Imagine That TTRPG]

The system is d% blackjack, where you want to roll under your skill but high. You earn success levels equal to the ‘tens’ die of your roll, and many rolls seem to be opposed where you compare success levels between the two parties.

The magic system is very interesting IMO. Arcane magic is verb / noun similar to Ars Magica but its own implementation. There is a concept that the more overt a magical effect is, the more reality ‘pushes back’ against the caster. Divine magic is very different. Godbound appeal to their deity and make a piety roll to see if they succeed, but the GM decides what the god does in response to that petition. And after character creation the Godbound doesn’t know what their piety score is, so they have to regularly engage in the tenants of their faith to keep topping it up. It’s different and very flavourful.

Thanks for the clarification. Oh, I love that divine magic system, though! I used to do that kind of thing in D&D (Divine Favor), but I had to create the mechanic for it myself. It's nice to see another system incorporate something like that from the foundation up. My players' priests could ask for a sign to ascertain their standing during a morning prayer, but like most omens, depending on the deity, the sign could be misleading. lol! Good times.

 

[Voadam]

I enjoy the crunchiness of PF. That might be because I started with AD&D 1e and ended with D&D 3.5e. I noticed a major trend towards rules-lite systems. I ran Story Day with my kids, which I employ a semi-rules-lite d20 system where we would each get to be the GM and tell wildly different interactive stories, so I get the appeal. How do people maintain deep and lasting campaigns in rules-lite systems? Which are the best ones? I like the look of Broken Empires, but it seems niche. Are there any that scratch that D&D-ish itch? I'm not fishing for ideas, I promise. My system is crunchy as peanut brittle, and I'm not here to shill. My daughter hates the crunch, but wants to GM for her rules-lite table. She's got her own world but needs a friendly system. I hope I'm not too far off topic.

For your daughter OSE (Old School Essentials) is a go to for more mechanically simple D&D, retrocloning B/X D&D it is like AD&D but much less mechanically fiddly. It still has classes and saving throws and vancian casting but the stat adjustments are simpler (13-15 is +1, 16-17 is +2, 18 is +3) no racial stat adjustments, initiative is much more straightforward, etc. Tons of adventures if she uses modules for her games. It has options for AD&D stuff like paladins and illusionists retuned to the simpler mechanics and slightly lower power of the Basic D&D baseline.

Swords & Wizardry is an OD&D clone and makes things generally even more straightforward, monsters have a flat save instead of categories for example. Tons of adventures as well.

Shadowdark is generally considered a more mechanically simple 5e D&D that a lot of people like. A decent amount of adventures.

Plenty of other options for rules simple alternatives to crunchy D&D.

The simplest I played was probably a reskinned Honey Heist with D&D class archetypes instead of bears. Free, one page of rules and one d6 mechanic, a ton of just improv and riffing on concepts. No advancement mechanics though for ongoing games and no combat minigame (same d6 mechanic resolution and riffing on results and concepts).