4th edition: Not happy with the new direction.

[Umbran]

Last time I checked this was the 4th edition discussion forum, not the only talk about 4th edition in a good light forum.

Consider your audience: This is a forum for the discussion of 4e. That means it is filled with folks who are highly interested in 4e - meaning they are predominantly fans of 4e.

If you intend very focused, constructive critique of particular aspects of the game, then you are fine. If your intent is to say the whole thing stinks and should be tossed out, then it is like you've walked into Fenway Park, intentionally wearing a Yankees hat, shouting that the Red Sox suck - it won't end well.

So, consider that before you continue.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Perhaps if you started by talking about the things you want in the game, then we can have an actual conversation?

Also, just my opinion, but if you DO want to have an actual discussion, perhaps starting your threads in a less aggressive manner would help?

What i think would be a good idea would to have classes as an option for D&D. I don't know if you have ever played games like Oblivion, but you have the option of choosing a class that has X list of abilities, or you have the option of essentially making your own class with a list of abilities to choose from.

I do like how it's easier on the DM but that's about it.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Mod Edit: The Rules of EN World are very clear - don't argue with a moderator in-thread. If you have a disagreement, question, or issue, take it to e-mail or Private Message, please. ~Umbran, EN World Moderator

 

[Scribble]

What i think would be a good idea would to have classes as an option for D&D. I don't know if you have ever played games like Oblivion, but you have the option of choosing a class that has X list of abilities, or you have the option of essentially making your own class with a list of abilities to choose from.

I do like how it's easier on the DM but that's about it.

That sounds kind of close to what Mr Mearls was talking about in his last column. Did you read it? If so, what about it struck you as not meeting what you were looking for?

I don't know if that's honestly where he intends to take the game though.

 

[Raunalyn]

What i think would be a good idea would to have classes as an option for D&D. I don't know if you have ever played games like Oblivion, but you have the option of choosing a class that has X list of abilities, or you have the option of essentially making your own class with a list of abilities to choose from.

I do like how it's easier on the DM but that's about it.

I've always wondered what a classless D&D would play like. While the concept is appealing, I'm not entirely sure it would work well in action. D&D has always been a class-based system, and turning that on its head would result in serious game-balance issues, IMHO

 

[jonesy]

What i think would be a good idea would to have classes as an option for D&D. I don't know if you have ever played games like Oblivion, but you have the option of choosing a class that has X list of abilities, or you have the option of essentially making your own class with a list of abilities to choose from.

In Oblivion and Morrowind the classes only affected which skills leveled faster. In the end game there really was no difference between what you'd chosen. And depending on your game style it was sometimes better to take a class which didn't help your favourite/most used skills. The star signs affected game play a lot more than the classes.

 

[OnlineDM]

I'm afraid your analogy isn't correct. This is a forum that is dedicated to 4th edition discussion, not "Post only positive results for 4th edition". I'm not trying to be an ass here but if you have to understand that not everyone likes 4th edition and that goes with 4th edition discussion. No I don't like 4th edition and I want a new direction and I have a right to ask for it. Now whether I get it is a different story, but being a paying customer since 1986 does allow me to ask for it.

It's all a matter of simplicity. If you agree then great, if you don't that's great to but don't come in with an attitude trying to dismiss someone because they happen to not like what you like.

I don't believe he's saying, "This is the wrong forum for talking about critiques of 4th Edition and things that could make it better." He's saying, "Keep in mind that most of the people who choose to read and post in a 4e forum are likely to be fans of 4e, so coming in with a bunch of hate for 4e could be inflammatory to the people on this forum." That's a bad thing.

 

[shamsael]

I think Essentials is the new direction of 4e. As with anything, there's no giarantee that a new take on a thing will keep its hold on existing customeers while enhancing its appeal with a significant number of those who didn't like the classic version.

I think Hasbro, WotC and TSR have all reflavoured the game at various times and each time has both alienated and attracted different parts of the player base. I further believe that each "new direction" was calculated beforehand for a net gain in satisfied players.

I don't see any new direction coming soon taht will satisfy the complaints of people on these and other boards since there is as yet no unified opinion of what would make the game better, but rather many often mutually exclusive different lists of complaints and suggestions.

We will not see a 5e, or any other type of new direction, until the community at large is able to show that it has at least come to common ground on how to respond to Post-Essentials 4e.

Past new directions...
Black Cover 2e: An aesthetic change bringing e game out of the realm of simulation and into a more immersive fantasy
RC D&D: An attempt to "unbox" the BECMI strain of D&D and show that it too was a serious game ofr grown ups and not just a toy version of the game to be soldmat Toys'R'Us
Players Option 2e: An attempt to move away from the rigid class structure of traditional D&D at a time when classless RPGs were very popular
D&D for Dummies: An attempt to capitalize on the mainstream's curiousity for D&D by marrying it to a very mainstream brand.
DDi: An attempt to attract people who are used to paying monthly fees for MMORPGs. Had the VTT come out on schedule, it would essentially have been an alternative to MMOs for those who enjoy online roleplaying.

 

[Raunalyn]

I'm ready for a complete reboot of the game and there are several things I want in that new direction.

But, that is precisely what 4e did. It took a model that was established 30+ years ago and sent it in a new direction. IMO, the older model had grown stale and really didn't have any further direction to go. Which is one of the reasons I like 4e so much. It is well balanced, the mechanics are pretty solid, and while it does some things I don't really like all that much (magic items...oy!), for the most part I really enjoy both playing and running it. And, WotC used an already working MMO model to try to pull in new players. If it gets more people wanting to play pen and paper RPG's, then it gets my approval.

 

[Scribble]

Past new directions...
Black Cover 2e: An aesthetic change bringing e game out of the realm of simulation and into a more immersive fantasy...

Out of curiosity what makes you say this? I don't remember a lot about the black cover book (and I never owned it) but I thought it was simply just a new cover with nothing changed in the rules?

Or do you mean skills and powers and combat and tactics included?