$5 4E PHB @ GenCon!

[Gothmog]

I actually find it incredibly amusing the convuluted mental gymnastics 4e and Wizards haters go through every time something like this happens.

"4e PHBs on sale for $5 with the purchase of another book! Jerks! They are stealing Paizo's thunder!" How exactly is this different from Paizo making the Pathfinder Alpha PDF version available around the time of 4e's release and hard copies of the Beta at GenCon last year? And nobody complained about that (and with good reason, more games = healthier gaming industry).

"Village of Hommlet shipped for free to RPGA DMs? Bastards, they should make it available to everybody!"

"The 4e PHB sold out its first print run? Obviously WotC deliberately printed few so they could claim it sold out, since 4e is a piece of crap!"

Really guys, thanks for your histrionics. The world is a more entertaining place for it.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I actually find it incredibly amusing the convuluted mental gymnastics 4e and Wizards haters go through every time something like this happens.

"4e PHBs on sale for $5 with the purchase of another book! Jerks! They are stealing Paizo's thunder!" How exactly is this different from Paizo making the Pathfinder Alpha PDF version available around the time of 4e's release and hard copies of the Beta at GenCon last year? And nobody complained about that (and with good reason, more games = healthier gaming industry).

"Village of Hommlet shipped for free to RPGA DMs? Bastards, they should make it available to everybody!"

"The 4e PHB sold out its first print run? Obviously WotC deliberately printed few so they could claim it sold out, since 4e is a piece of crap!"

Really guys, thanks for your histrionics. The world is a more entertaining place for it.

Oh, of course. I think WotC is pulling a bad move, so I'm an IRRATIONAL WHOTSEE HATER, OMG THE CONVOLUTED GYMNASTICS I PERFORM! THEY WOULD BREAK YOUR MIND!

No but seriously, your post is kinda dumb in that it doesn't really apply to me whatsoever, and that you have taken such a huge emotional investment in a company. Seriously, I don't think any of the posters hate 4e or WotC and want to see them burned to the ground. We just think it's kind of a dick move, is all.

That, and your first comparison (I never even commented on the threads regarding the other two, so I have no clue where you're going with those) is completely off. A company has a new game, oh hey look, Gencon. That's not OMG TRYING TO RIP WIZARDS OFF, that's "Oh hey, this is the perfect and natural place to open a game." In this situation, WotC isn't opening a new game. It's just slashing out it's prices specifically for Gencon. There's nothing new being presented here.

Anyways, you keep thise fires of victimhood a'burning, and I'll keep shaking my head in an amused manner.

 

[Herschel]

Oooh! Conspiracy! $5 PHBs! WotC is planning something! Low print runs! 4.5!

How bout its a good way to take some of the air out of Pathfinder's roll out and get people into the RPGA games running at Gen Con?

This.
It's good marketing.

 

[Herschel]

Selling off print stock at 85% off cover price is something of considerable note.

Ah, but they're not really selling it at 85% off, they're selling two books at about 50% off, not much less than Amazon and a bit more if you buy a third or more.

 

[Herschel]

I'm not too sure how bigger deal this is. For D&D to grow, WotC need as many PHB I handbooks in use as possible. This seems a clever move on the surface, but how much are they de-valuing the long-term value of the Flagship book?

They aren't. They're getting the gateway product in to people's hands that, quite frankly, almost all current players likely have. And a $5 PHB makes a nice, cheap gift for those that have them to give to someone who may be curious. Then they can then sell you PHB2, DMGs, MMs, Campaign Guides, Player's Guides, sourcebooks, modules.......but people who don't have them generally aren't playing.

 

[Filcher]

Wish it had happened a year ago.

 

[Umbran]

Really guys, thanks for your histrionics. The world is a more entertaining place for it.

Anyways, you keep thise fires of victimhood a'burning, and I'll keep shaking my head in an amused manner.

Because, as we all know, what we need is more insults, belittling, and dismissiveness around here, and threads that make things more personal. Neither of you is nearly so dumb as to think anything good could come out of calling others willing victims, or histrionic.

You two (and everyone else) will treat each other with a modicum of respect, or you'll have to take your discussion elsewhere.

 

[Mark]

Ah, but they're not really selling it at 85% off, they're selling two books at about 50% off, not much less than Amazon and a bit more if you buy a third or more.

Oh, I wouldn't think of it that way, as it looks worse by some perspectives because most supplements do not retail for as much as the PH and because they all cost WotC much, much more per unit due to the economies of scales that get dropped through the floor with the PH1's relatively huge print runs in comparison to absolutely any other product. Plus, it is more likely that someone who picks up a WotC game book at Gencon isn't making the decision between buying it at Gencon or not at all, but rather making the decision between buying it at Gencon and lugging it home or waiting until they are home and either sending away to Amazon and buying it at the gamestore. In either case this then becomes a discussion about WotC encouraging customers to forego traditional distribution channels. While some might applaud sidestepping Amazon (though I'd imagine the deep discount doesn't actually provide for much difference in their bottomline in a comparison between this Gencon sale and an Amazon transaction), I doubt many would think it is a good thing for WotC to be drawing sales away from retailers. Anyway, I feel it is much better to examine the $5 PH1s on their own terms and try to divine the reasoning behind it rather than try to offset the perceived discount by explaining it away as digging into other profit margins, as that just opens up many more cans or worms and never gets to the point in the first place.

 

[Obryn]

In either case this then becomes a discussion about WotC encouraging customers to forego traditional distribution channels. While some might applaud sidestepping Amazon (though I'd imagine the deep discount doesn't actually provide for much difference in their bottomline in a comparison between this Gencon sale and an Amazon transaction), I doubt many would think it is a good thing for WotC to be drawing sales away from retailers.

Arguments like this are made every time a gaming company does pretty much anything innovative and experimental. We heard them as justifications for print & PDF products costing the same, and even more recently we heard how Paizo selling their PDFs for $10 would seriously harm gaming stores and get them not to carry Paizo materials.

I don't think any of it holds water - especially when we're talking about Gen Con. Conventions are more about getting your product out there than they are about selling it, IMO. Sure, you need to recoup your costs, but the big reason to do them is that you have a wide audience. WotC is trying to capture some of that audience with a great marketing gimmick. I think they announced it at a very good time, too - enough so that this will probably still be buzzing by the time Gen Con hits.

So, as a counterargument, I'll say that I expect this will have either zero, or positive impact on FLGSes. If you get new people to play 4e, you increase the customer base, and FLGSes can hopefully get future sales they may otherwise not have.

Anyway, I feel it is much better to examine the $5 PH1s on their own terms and try to divine the reasoning behind it rather than try to offset the perceived discount by explaining it away as digging into other profit margins, as that just opens up many more cans or worms and never gets to the point in the first place.

I think "convention buzz" is really all you need, as far as justifications go. If you want people to play 4e, you need to get more PHBs out there, and there's no better audience than a hall full of gamers.

I also think it's plausible they're going to do a revised printing of the PHB in the next year or so, with errata included. In which case this is a great way to move the existing stock... I remember that White Wolf basically gave away Exalted 1e at Gen Con a few years back, right before 2e came out. I don't expect anything quite so radical - but it's a damn good way to move books you might not need for very long.

Regardless, although I am positive Pathfinder will sell out in the very first day of the Convention, I think WotC's strategy here will do a very good job of getting the PHB into the hands of people who don't already play 4e. If Paizo's stock is fairly limited, I'd expect most Paizo sales are going to be to existing fans, and almost certainly many of them will be to people who also have the book pre-ordered. While that's awesome, and while it will make for some great and well-equipped groups, it might not seed the books to new eyeballs and new players quite as well. WotC's strategy, OTOH, is apparently mostly designed to entice the new and curious to check out what 4e has to offer.

Anyway, I wish both companies a fantastic Con and wish I could be there.

-O

 

[Mark]

Arguments like this are made (. . .)

I don't think any of it holds water - (. . .)

So, as a counterargument, (. . .)

No need. I don't think it is relevant and was only pointing out why the tact was not worth exploring.

I also think it's plausible they're going to do a revised printing of the PHB in the next year or so, with errata included.

This is definitely one scenario. Do most people feel a PH1 with errata will be significantly better than the current PH1?

Anyway, I wish both companies a fantastic Con and wish I could be there.

Indeed.