Re: Another reference not cited
The Oracle said:
I don't think any of you mentioned it, you have mentioned most of the other references including the FAQ.
On page 130, under Movement and Position/Tactical Movement/How Far Can Your Character Move?
"If you do something that requires a full round, such as attacking more than once, you can only take a 5-foot step."
This does not preclude two 5 foot moves when hasted since attacking more than once does NOT require a full round when hasted. This rule is totally inapplicable to haste since it is only talking about when a full round action takes an entire round.
The most it does is limit you to a single 5 foot step when doing a full round action, just like the rules on page 121.
Artoomis said:
Consider this quote (I finally pulled out my PHB)
"If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move for one or more move-equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during or after the action."
This quote is from the poll thread, but Artoomis wants the discussion in this thread.
This is the only rule that even partially supports a one 5 foot step per round interpretation.
This rule is in the MEA section. It refers explicitly to an MEA taken in place of a movement action in a standard action, or that takes the place of an entire partial action (either by itself, or within a standard action).
I am hasted. I do a standard action of pulling out a potion and drinking it. According to this rule, I have not moved in the round, so I can move 5 feet. And, I do.
Now, I have a partial action left over. I decide to move 30 feet with it.
This rule, in and of itself, does not retroactively say "whoops, you have to give the 5 foot move back because you suddenly moved". It says "before, during, or after the action". Only a movement within the action could prevent the 5 foot move. Once the entire action is over (not partway through the action like with the retroactive AoO rule), how can you go back into the action and retroactively state that someone actually did not move 5 feet? That could change the result of the action. Maybe they needed that extra 5 feet to get within the range of the opponent that they killed. The action is over.
This is a normal action. If a non-hasted character can do an action within his normal action, the hasted character can also do the exact same action in his normal action.
The rule also doesn't say "whoops, you made a 5 foot move, no more movement in the partial".
Now, for consistency sake, I can see a given DM saying that the literal interpretation of “in a round” means that if you take your partial first and you move in it, you have moved in the round and cannot take a 5 foot step and two MEAs with your normal action. Hence, moving in the partial first would result in a different set of allowable actions than moving in the partial second, so if you do one or two MEAs as part of your normal action with a 5 foot move, then you cannot move during your separate partial.
Another DM might say ‘Hey, them’s the breaks.” If you use the partial first to move, you cannot get a “5 foot step” in the normal. If you use a “5 foot step” in the normal first, then you can move in the partial.
The rule is ambiguous with regard to haste since there are no examples of going into a separate action. There is no precedence in the game for once an entire action is totally handled, that you can retroactively go back into that action and say that part of it actually did not occur. And in fact, there are a lot of precedence rules such as Expertise and Power Attack which indicate that conditions do in fact, reset on the next action.
But, one thing is clear. This rule is in the MEA section. Hence, it applies to MEAs and not Full Round Actions and not Partial Actions. If it applied to Full Round Attacks for example, then moving 5 feet, doing a full round attack, and then moving 30 feet with the partial action when hasted would be illegal. I do not think anyone is claiming that this is illegal (“The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action.”), but I might be wrong.
Let’s take a totally different example.
You are hasted. You are standing next to an enemy with a melee (non-reach) weapon.
You use your standard action to double move away.
Page 122 in the AoO section “If all you do is move (not run) during your turn, the space that you start out in is not considered threatened, and therefore, enemies do not get AoOs against you when you move from that space.”
Now, I can see where you might interpret this to mean that the partial action retroactively results in an AoO due to the “during your turn” phrase.
But, page 126 in the Double Move sections states “However, since all you do when you take a double move action is to move, the space where you begin your move is not considered threatened, and therefore enemies do not get AoOs for your moving from that space.”
This section quite clearing states that if you use an action to double move, your starting space is not threatened and there is no AoO. There is no retroactive AoO because the starting space was never threatened.
But, according to the “entire round” logic (that people are inferring from phrases like “during your turn” and “in a round”), even though you are 60 feet away and any other character doing the exact same action of double moving 60 feet away would not have provoked an AoO, you suddenly retroactively provoke an AoO because you are hasted and decided to use your second action for something else.
But, the rules do not support that interpretation. Page 126 explicitly states otherwise.
The rules support the interpretation that the normal action and the partial action when hasted are separate actions and that anything a non-hasted character could do in a normal action, a hasted character could do. Anything a slowed character could do in a partial action, a hasted character could do in his partial action.
Look at Table 8-3 on partial actions. It indicates that a wide variety of partial actions can use a 5 foot step with them. For example, move 5 and attack. So, when hasted, a human in light armor could run 120 feet. He could then move 5’ and attack with a partial action. The table indicates that you can do that. The section on Partial Actions page 127 states that “Typically, you may take a 5-foot step as part of a partial action.” When can you not take a 5 foot step? When Table 8-3 indicates that you cannot. For example, Start full round action does not allow a 5 foot step with a partial action. Melee Attack does allow it.
The table clearly indicates that the “Typically” phrase means that most of the time you can unless a rule states that you cannot.
Unless someone else can come up with a different rule, this more or less illustrates that the only “one 5 foot move per round” rule is in the MEA section and that one is somewhat ambiguous with regard to Haste.
) anyway, doubts that i thought were put to bed need to go to the bathroom *sigh* i'm still leaning to the 1 per round side tho. ... and the battle rages on
