D&D General Haste: The (system) Shocking History of the Spell!

[Maxperson]

Not long after that, "how to be a good lich?"

Now I'm picturing a lich sitting down next to someone getting scratched behind the ears. "Who's a good lich! You are!"

 

[Maxperson]

I think that's a fine house rule!

IME, system shock rolls were not common at many tables. They did seem unusually punitive.

I would add that the resurrection limit and the resurrection chance to survive was also not very often observed, but, as always, individual table variance is high.

We did away with it for haste, but kept it for polymorph, coming back from the dead, and petrification. I'm not 100%, but we may have done away with it for ghost aging as well, since aging so much was already punishment enough.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Since fighters had an attack rate of 3/2 or 1 attack the first round and 2 attacks the second round, wouldn't doubling the rate be 2 attacks the first round and 4 attacks the second round? It's still 6 attacks over two rounds, but 3 attacks a round doesn't seem like an accurate doubling of the fighter's current attack rate.

PHB 74, Haste Spell:
"When this spell is cost, affected creatures function at double their normal movement and attack rates." (emphasis mine)

If you attack rate is 3/2, double it is 3/1 (twice 1.5 = 3). So ... it's the rule in the PHB and the DMG.

It's clear as ..... well, as anything else in 1e!

When one or more creatures involved in combat are permitted to use their attack routines twice or more often during the round, then the following initiative determinants are employed. When the attack routine may be used twice, then allow the side with this advantage to attack FIRST and LAST with those members of its group who have this advantage. If it is possessed by both parties, the initiative roll determines which group strikes FIRST and THIRD, which group strikes SECOND and LAST. If one or both groups have members allowed only one attack routine, it will always fall in the middle of the other attacks, the order determined by dicing for initiative, when necessary. If one party has the ability to employ its attack routines thrice, then the other party dices for initiative to see if it, or the multi-routine group, strikes first in the mid-point of the round. Extrapolate for routines which occur four or more times in a round by following the method above. Note that a routine is the attack or attacks usual to the creature concerned, i.e. a weapon (or weapons) for a character, a claw/claw/bite routine for a bear (with incidental; damage assessed as it occurs - the hug, for exomple). A 12th level fighter is allowed attack routines twice in every odd numbered melee round, for example, and this moves up to three per round if a haste spell is cast upon the fighter. Damage from successful attacks is assessed when the "to hit" score is made and damage determined, the creature so taking damage having to survive it in order to follow its attack routine.

DMG 63.


(I do like that Gygax changed it from attack rate to attack routine, with no need for consistency between the two.)

 

[Maxperson]

and then we come to 3E and most broken version of the Haste in history.

We never had an issue with 3e Haste.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

We did away with it for haste, but kept it for polymorph, coming back from the dead, and petrification. I'm not 100%, but we may have done away with it for ghost aging as well, since aging so much was already punishment enough.

The reason we never had an issue with haste in 1e is because Magic Users were all like ....

Third Level Spell? IMA GO BOOM WITH FIREBALL!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Maxperson]

The reason we never had an issue with haste in 1e is because Magic Users were all like ....

Third Level Spell? IMA GO BOOM WITH FIREBALL!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!

That and undead.

Me: "I finally hit 5th level! I'm taking fireball."

DM: "The wraith hits you."

Me: "..."

 

[Alzrius]

Gygax answered a question about haste here on these forums! When asked about haste, aging and system shock, he replied-

[Haste was] Too popular until "fixed." The Haste spell, along with Speed potion consumption, was the subject of considerable abuse in not only my camopaign but in many others. Thus the strictures [age and system shock] added to the spell.

Most persons getting hasted were fighters with good constitution scores, so the system shock was not all that tough a challenge. Elf and dwarf fighters didn't care about the aging effect either. so the added demands didn't do more than cut the abuse by around 90%

For those who want to check the source on this (which, as a lawyer, I'm sure Snarf won't take offense at), here's a link to the aforementioned post.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

For those who want to check the source on this (which, as a lawyer, I'm sure Snarf won't take offense at), here's a link to the aforementioned post.

No offense taken! I love that thread, and think more people should avail themselves of it!

(That said, while I will use it to add support to positions, I caution everyone to remember that Gygax was not a perfect source, and that his recollections, decades later, are not definitive proof of historical events.)

 

[Mark Hope]

My current players are super wary of haste because of the aging effect - one group had a huge argument about it because the wizard cast it on the party without warning anyway. Thankfully no one died.

And there's one temple in my game that now refuses to cast raise dead or resurrection for the party because doing so has already killed two of its high priests through system shock failure!

 

[Maxperson]

My current players are super wary of haste because of the aging effect - one group had a huge argument about it because the wizard cast it on the party without warning anyway. Thankfully no one died.

And there's one temple in my game that now refuses to cast raise dead or resurrection for the party because doing so has already killed two of its high priests through system shock failure!

I don't remember the caster having to roll. I thought only the person being raised had to make the roll.