D&D 5E 5e Assassin build Advice

[Snacktastic]

Hi all.
First post, so please be gentle.

I'm rolling my first new character in a long time and I think I have settled on which levels I would like to end up with;

Fighter 11 (Battle Master) / Rogue 4 (assassin) / Ranger 5 (Gloom Stalker)

What I am looking for help on is as my character progresses, when should I be taking which levels?

My initial draft is something along the lines of:

Fighter 1: Fighting Style {Archery)
Fighter 2: Action Surge
Rogue 1: Sneak Attack, Expertise
Rogue 2: Cunning Action
Rogue 3: Assassinate
Rogue 4: Asi
Ranger 1:
Ranger 2: Hunters Mark, Fighting style (Two Weapon Fighting)
Ranger 3: Gloom stalker, dread ambusher
Fighter 3
Fighter 4: Asi
Fighter 5: Extra Attack
Ranger 4: Asi
Ranger 5: Pass without trace
Fighter 6: Asi
Fighter 7
Fighter 8: Asi
Fighter 11: Extra Attack


I realize that the Fighter/Rogue/Ranger build might not be optimal but it suits my character thematically, what I am most hoping for advice on is when should I be taking which levels?
Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

 

[FrogReaver]

Hi all.
First post, so please be gentle.

I'm rolling my first new character in a long time and I think I have settled on which levels I would like to end up with;

Fighter 11 (Battle Master) / Rogue 4 (assassin) / Ranger 5 (Gloom Stalker)

What I am looking for help on is as my character progresses, when should I be taking which levels?

My initial draft is something along the lines of:

Fighter 1: Fighting Style {Archery)
Fighter 2: Action Surge
Rogue 1: Sneak Attack, Expertise
Rogue 2: Cunning Action
Rogue 3: Assassinate
Rogue 4: Asi
Ranger 1:
Ranger 2: Hunters Mark, Fighting style (Two Weapon Fighting)
Ranger 3: Gloom stalker, dread ambusher
Fighter 3
Fighter 4: Asi
Fighter 5: Extra Attack
Ranger 4: Asi
Ranger 5: Pass without trace
Fighter 6: Asi
Fighter 7
Fighter 8: Asi
Fighter 11: Extra Attack


I realize that the Fighter/Rogue/Ranger build might not be optimal but it suits my character thematically, what I am most hoping for advice on is when should I be taking which levels?
Any suggestions are highly appreciated.

If you don't want optimal then you need to tell us your vision for the character or else we can't tell when we are pushing something really important to you back till later.

General advice:
Ensure you have 5 levels in a single class by level 6. For your setup I would recommend your gloomstalker levels first.
I personally would then aim for 4 levels of rogue. Then I would follow up with the fighter levels. Fighter would likely add more damage, but rogue seems like it enables the out of combat setup you want (tons of stealth and the assinate feature)

So full recommendation would be something like:
Fighter 1
Ranger 1-5
Rogue 4
Fighter 2-11

 

[Snacktastic]

If you don't want optimal then you need to tell us your vision for the character or else we can't tell when we are pushing something really important to you back till later.

General advice:
Ensure you have 5 levels in a single class by level 6. For your setup I would recommend your gloomstalker levels first.

The vision for the character is very much as you suspected, tons of stealth and looking for ranged assassinate options.
I think that Fighter Rogue Paladin is actually the optimal first round but that build bottlenecks you into Melee (as I understand), I definitely would prefer ranged attacks.

Is the 5 levels in the first 6 mostly looking for the extra attack from somewhere or is that focused on getting an ASI/Feat as early as possible?

 

[shadowoflameth]

We have an assassin in our campaign. Best advise I have is let your party members provide help and stay focused. What you're describing is a fighter type with a smattering of roguishness. If that's what you want, then there are fighter guides in the forums here that are excellent IMHO. As for assassin advice, he's all about surprise. Many only consider surprise in the first round of combat but you can get it at other times. If through invisibility, walls or illusions, or disguises, you can get it more than once or at least get it in the event that you don't roll first in initiative, you really shine.

 

[FrogReaver]

The vision for the character is very much as you suspected, tons of stealth and looking for ranged assassinate options.
I think that Fighter Rogue Paladin is actually the optimal first round but that build bottlenecks you into Melee (as I understand), I definitely would prefer ranged attacks.

Is the 5 levels in the first 6 mostly looking for the extra attack from somewhere or is that focused on getting an ASI/Feat as early as possible?

Yes. Extra attack is the key to good damage especially with hunters mark.

 

[Eltab]

Study carefully the Stealth and Surprise and Assassinate rules to see how they really work. (Despite intuition, you do not get a "Round Negative One" all to yourself then both sides roll initiative.) Understand what your character can and cannot do. Then have a private talk with the DM about it, the goal to already share an understanding of Rules-As-Written when you first try out your special trick.

I have an Assassin in my group whose player likes to kick in the front door, not sneak up to a window, so a lot of his features do not come into play at the tab!e.

 

[aco175]

Welcome to the boards, have some XP. We are generally a good-minded bunch.

I'd be careful with 3 classes in 5e. The way power scales it may make your PC on par with a 10th level PC when you are 20th level.

 

[Snacktastic]

Any chance anyone could help me out with some DPR calculations? And ideas on how much is actually good/needed at any level?

The three early game builds I am looking at based on the advice given thus far.

Fighter 5 / Rogue 1 :
Pros = Seems to combine the consistency of the fighter class with the early utility of the rogue class; in the next two levels assassinate comes
Con's = No ranger levels until level 8 so levels 9-14 will see much less growth.

Fighter 1 / Ranger 5:
Pros = Get's the extra attack, pass without trace, gloom stalker (god tier imo) damage in turn one. Fighter 2 and Rogue 1 in the next two levels (followed by rogue 2-3) should ramp up quickly-ish. However;
Cons = No Action surge or Rogue though, so full assassinate nova will not occur until level 9 or 10.

Fighter 3/Rogue 3:
Pro's = Assassinate, expertise, action surge and battle master all there!
Cons = No extra attack until level 8, no ranger levels so 9 - 14 levels will be pain. All ASI come very late in comparison to single class

1	Fighter 1:	Archery
2	Rogue 1:	Sneak Attack, Expertise	Expertise Utility
3	Fighter 2:	Action Surge	<- enough said?
4	Fighter 3:	Battle Master	Extra damage when you need it
5	Fighter 4:	Asi
6	Fighter 5:	Extra Attack	Extra dpr

1	Fighter 1:
2	Ranger 1:
3	Ranger 2:	Hunters Mark, Fighting style (Two Weapon Fighting)
4	Ranger 3:	Gloom stalker	Extra attack on first turn and an extra 1d8 per hit.
5	Ranger 4:	Asi
6	Ranger 5:	Pass without trace, Extra Attack

1	Fighter 1:
2	Rogue 1:	Sneak Attack, Expertise	Expertise is a tick
3	Fighter 2:	Action Surge	Yep!
4	Rogue 2:	Cunning Action
5	Rogue 3:	Assassinate	Nova!
6	Fighter 3:	Battle Master

I realize this entire build is based on surprise damage and that surprise is not consistent. I'm kind of nervous about it, I don't know what damage I should be doing at end game per turn, I don't know what is normal/average.

 

[coolAlias]

Keep in mind your character will be in a party of adventurers, you don't need to be a one-person army.

Pass without trace is a decent spell, but with expertise and high Dex you hardly need it to be good at stealth, and if you do, let someone else cast it.

Hunter's mark is also decent, but 5 additional levels of rogue would get you +3d6 sneak attack damage on most rounds which is comparable and also nets you other cool features such as Uncanny Dodge and Evasion.

Sure, the Gloomstalker will maximize your suprise-round damage, but in my experience, that is a somewhat rare occurrence unless your DM is particularly lenient or you are off on your own most of the time, which generally isn't much fun for the rest of the group.

So I'd suggest sticking to 2 classes, such as Fighter 11 / Rogue 9, or even go full Rogue - it's a great class with good damage output and lots of noncombat utility.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'd say that a rogue using booming blade makes a pretty good benchmark. If you can keep your damage consistently at or above that then you are doing good damage.