5E 5E Beast Companion Mechanics.

Weiley31

Villager
So I'm fully aware of the issues with the PHB Ranger and the Beast Master's Companion. So the Revised Ranger is going to be the default choice for the class at my table since it(and the Beast Conclave) are better.

Now my question is this: With the release of the sweet UA Class Features Variant playtest rules, WHICH Beast Companion "mechanic" is better? The Revised Ranger Beast Conclave or UA Class Feature Variant? I want to use WHICHEVER system is better for Beast Companions, of all kinds, at my table. Including for the Battlesmith's Mecha animal.

*My view is that a Ranger with a Beast Companion SHOULD be a badass tag-team in battle. ESPECIALLY if they are bonded.

Also if this question was already asked by me, the original posting isn't appearing for some reason.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
The new UA Class Feature does not change Beast Master at all.

All it does is add two new companion options whose stat-blocks have things inherent to them that counteract many of the complaints that people had about companions before.

  1. Low Hitpoints/Hit Die -
    1. these new companion options have HD = Ranger level so they can heal better on short rests.
      1. Earth beast has d8's, Air has d6's
    2. They have hit points = (ranger level x 5) + Beast's Con modifier + Ranger's Wis modifier
  2. Prevent death of a companion
    1. These both have the ability to basically resurrect them by spending a 1st level or higher spell slot.
  3. Action Economy
    1. These have an ability that lets you use your Bonus Action to command them to attack rather than your attack action
These changes are INHERENT to the Beasts, not the Beast Master subclass.

The only other change that matters for Beast Master in the UA is that the Revivify spell was added to the base Ranger spell list so Beast Masters with other companions can keep them alive/around if they have the spell and 300 gp of diamond dust!
 

Weiley31

Villager
The new UA Class Feature does not change Beast Master at all.

All it does is add two new companion options whose stat-blocks have things inherent to them that counteract many of the complaints that people had about companions before.

  1. Low Hitpoints/Hit Die -
    1. these new companion options have HD = Ranger level so they can heal better on short rests.
      1. Earth beast has d8's, Air has d6's
    2. They have hit points = (ranger level x 5) + Beast's Con modifier + Ranger's Wis modifier
  2. Prevent death of a companion
    1. These both have the ability to basically resurrect them by spending a 1st level or higher spell slot.
  3. Action Economy
    1. These have an ability that lets you use your Bonus Action to command them to attack rather than your attack action
These changes are INHERENT to the Beasts, not the Beast Master subclass.

The only other change that matters for Beast Master in the UA is that the Revivify spell was added to the base Ranger spell list so Beast Masters with other companions can keep them alive/around if they have the spell and 300 gp of diamond dust!

Ya I saw that. It's still a pretty good option. I like the lore of the Primal Beasts too that they briefly offered.

I just didn't know if this was better to use over how Beast Conclave scales the animal companions or even like how the Battlesmith's pet scales as well.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
Ya I saw that. It's still a pretty good option. I like the lore of the Primal Beasts too that they briefly offered.

I just didn't know if this was better to use over how Beast Conclave scales the animal companions or even like how the Battlesmith's pet scales as well.
Personally I'd try out the ranger with just the UA options and leave Revised Ranger alone for now. it's really not all that much better than base ranger honestly.

They brought a ton of love to him with the new stuff. Natural Explorer and Favored Enemy are both way upgraded, and with the new beast companion options, I think there's probably very little to not like about Beast Master now.
 

Weiley31

Villager
Which is it?

Do they die or not?
Basically you can revive the Beast of The Air/Earth. That's how I took it.

Honestly with how they did the Primal Beasts, you can actually use the default PHB Ranger Beast Master for "regular animals" and the UA Beast of The Air/Earth for those "rare" beasts that are from the Primal Lineage.
-id be crazy enough to do that.-
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
Which is it?

Do they die or not?
I can edit my post to read "Prevent Perma-death" if that would be more helpful as it is what I meant.

One of the biggest Beast Master complaints has always been that the Ranger itself doesn't have a way to bring back just dead companions, and if they have a special companion that isn't native to the area they're traveling in, their replacement companion might not be what they want (DM dependent obviously.)

The Revivify spell added to and this ability of these Primal beasts means that it is no longer a valid complaint with these UA options.
 

Weiley31

Villager
I just wasn't sure WHICH scaling is better with making the beast still.being a viable source of damage and health.

Whether the Conclave/Battlesmith/or UA was better. Or even with how the Beast Companion moves and stuff.
 
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Al2O3

Explorer
I haven't checked the details, but these new beasts are essentially how WotC want to implement the good parts of the Iron Defender design into the Beast master. So Beast master and Battlesmith should be on par.

I do not remember the revised ranger at all, and consider it dead to me. I can't help at all there.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
See below for the individual details, this doesn't consider any higher level conclave/path abilities from any of these subclasses, just looking at the beast feature itself. I don't have time to delve into the higher level subclass abilities for you and how those impact.

Basically the Battlesmith and the new UA options are exactly equivalent though vary slightly in some fiddly bits (healing the companion and companion save proficiencies)

The Revised Ranger is both better and worse than both Battle Smith and new UA options
  • Better
    • Acts on own init and doesn't require Ranger's action economy to direct
    • Increases animal stats as Ranger gains ASI feature so Str/Dex/Con are going to all be better
  • Worse
    • You can't revive it
    • HP are variable depending on if you pump it's Con or Str

Beast Master with new UA Primal Beast
  • Add your proficiency bonus to the beast’s AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in.
  • Proficient in Dex, Con, Wisdom saving throws
  • Beast's HD = Ranger level, d8's for earth, d6's for air
  • Beast's HP = Ranger WisMod+Beast ConMod+ Ranger Level x5
  • You can spend a 1st level spell to revive it if it died within the last hour
  • Bonus action to command an attack
All of those scale with level to improve the beast as a source of damage and health.

UA Artificer's Iron Defender:
  • Might of the Master. The following numbers increase by 1 when your proficiency bonus increases by 1: the iron defender’s skill bonuses, the bonuses to hit and damage of its bite, and the number of hit points restored by its Repair action
  • No saving throw proficiencies
  • Defender's HP = Artificer IntMod+Defender's ConMod+Artificer Level x5
  • There are no HD because you can repair it's hp with a mending cantrip, healing 2d6 damage +1/proficiency... with a cantrip, i.e. no short rest needed for it.
  • You can spend a 1st level spell to revive it if it died within the last hour
  • Bonus action to command an attack

Conclave:
  • Companion uses your Proficiency bonus for attacks & skills + AC and Damage
  • It is proficient in all saving throws
  • For each ranger level after 3rd, companion gains +1 HD and HP accordingly (i.e. 4.5+Con)
  • Every time ranger gains an ASI, beast can increase one stat by +2 or two by +1 (max 20)
  • Companion takes full actions on its own initiative that you direct
 
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Weiley31

Villager
That's EXACTLY what I was looking for. I just wanted to know the pros and cons of each "Beast Mechanic" so I can choose which one to use.

Thanks!
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
I believe the wording to be deliberately vague, so the player could fluff the primal beast to be a natural creature with limited plot armour, or a supernatural creature like a telthor who cannot die, depending on their preference.
UA:
Stories describe primal beasts that mystically change form to align with the spirit of their companion.

When a primal beast is met apart from a Beast Master, the creature takes the form a regular beast of challenge rating 1/4 or lower, as determined by the DM.
 

LuisCarlos17f

Adventurer
My theory is they want a module about "monster pets", something like "mystical: kingdom of monsters (coming soon for 5Ed)"

And my suggestion for game mechanic is something like a monster class (like the ones from "Savage Species"). The player can control two characters, the humanoid and the "pet", because there is a limited telepathic link between those two characters controlled by the same player, but when DM has to share out the XPs then the pets is like other PCs. With this the group isn't so powerful to break the balance of power. And even a new class could be created, like a mixture of summoner (from Pathfinder) and the totemist shaman (Magic of Incarnum), assigning points of essence to chakra (body slots for magic item) to get monster traits and metamagic effects. Do you remember the demonbinder prestige class, spending damnation points you could "buy" some advantages?

If there is a class like a pokemon trainer or digimon tamer then somebody will want to be a dragon rider or something like this and I don't blame him. But what if the dragon wants to polymorph in a dragonborn shape to help in the dungeon-crawling to earn more gold? And then she will can use magic item.

Other player would want to use those games mechanics about "monster allies" to create a necromancer lord and his little warband of undead "pets", or a gadgeter artificer and her little army of construct soldiers.

Other matter is beast allies have better senses than humanoids. Even a horse in a camp for the night could smell or listen a potential intruder or predator.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
No. They are exactly like PHB Beast companions except what is written in their stat blocks.

If ASI's are what you want for your beasts, you need to go with Revised Ranger.
 

Weiley31

Villager
Also, I thought the Revised Ranger CAN revive their Beast Companion. It says it takes 8 hours and up to 250 go worth of rare food and herbs to revive it back.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
Also, I thought the Revised Ranger CAN revive their Beast Companion. It says it takes 8 hours and up to 250 go worth of rare food and herbs to revive it back.
Tomato-tomatoe

A standard Beast Master can summon a new Beast with 8 hours and 0 gp if it dies. The issue has always been "what animals are nearby that can be summoned"

The new Battlesmith/UA Ranger beast rules allow you to do it for free with a 1st level spell OR cast Revivify for 300 gp within 1 minute of it dying
 

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