D&D 5E 5e CB's Stonefast OOC -- COMPLETE

[tuxgeo]

And I forgot to add my question about Sneak Attack:

Do thrown weapons count as "ranged weapons" for the purposes of the Sneak Attack feature? I ask because the handaxe and light hammer are listed as "melee weapons" in the Weapons Table, but they can still be used to make ranged attacks; however, the dart is listed as a "ranged weapon" even though it has the "thrown" property.

Am I overthinking this and borrowing trouble?

 

[Skarsgard]

It does say Ranged Weapon not ranged attack, so strictly by raw no to daggers but yes to darts. Put it this way, it makes darts useful to a rogue. I have made a couple with 8 darts or so, you can carry it in your off-hand so you have a ranged attack ready to go.

 

[Forged Fury]

Oh... good question. On one side, it doesn't seem like it would really hurt anything, at least not with your build. On the other side, I can see where the rules would prevent it if "Sneak Attack" is intended to be tied to "Attacking with Dex". Conversely, Sneak Attack just says it has to be a Finesse Weapon. Nothing obligates you to use your Dex with a Finesse Weapon, you're just allowed to do so.

I'd probably allow it as a DM. I'd probably house rule it to:
Melee: Finesse and Light weapons
Ranged: Ranged weapons and weapons with both the thrown and light qualities.

ETA: I think technically, per the Basic Rules RAW, a dagger works no matter what since it is a Finesse weapon, even if you aren't using it in Melee and that's all that's required per the rules (e.g. "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.") Yeah, it's definitely a rules lawyer argument. Fortunately, 5E pretty much puts the decision making squarely in the lap of the DM.

ETA2: Now I'm trying to figure out why darts are listed as Finesse weapons. Is that only for the corner case of using them as improvised weapons?

 

[tuxgeo]

Re: Darts -- If they weren't finesse, they would be strictly inferior to daggers in my humble opinion: same range, same damage die, same damage type ("piercing") -- but daggers can also be used in melee while darts cannot. Darts have to have some usefulness, or else they become a mere legacy weapon that nobody would ever actually use. Given that comparison, making them be "finesse" costs nothing, and might help people choose them in some cases.

In looking back at earlier editions:

3.5E does not list weapon restrictions on the Sneak Attack ability, but does limit Rogues to a fixed list of available weapons: all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, sap, shortbow, and short sword. This is somewhat comparable to the 5E list for the Rogue, although the sap, short sword, and shortbow are Martial Weapons in 3.5E, and the hand crossbow is an Exotic Weapon.

4E limits the Sneak Attack ability specifically to "a light blade, a hand crossbow, a shortbow, or a sling," although the "Ruthless Ruffian" tactic allows the use of a club or mace as well. 4E didn't allow SA using a dart, but also didn't include "Dart" as an available weapon at all.

From a roleplaying perspective: Guran initially loaded himself down with three types of thrown weapons: a dagger, two handaxes, and a light hammer. He could do Sneak Attack at 1st level, but he may not have enough evidence available yet to be able to conclude that sneak-attacking works with the dagger but not with the other two types of thrown weapons.

If he lives long enough, he might find used daggers in some of the found treasure (if the party finds any treasure), and slowly add them to his arsenal. (He would always keep at least one handaxe and one light hammer in order to have slicing and bludgeoning capability.)

 

[Forged Fury]

But ranged weapons (not Melee Weapons with the Thrown quality) by default use Dexterity don't they? How does making a dart a Finesse weapon help? I must be missing something here.

ET: I guess with a dart being a Finesse weapon it means that you could use your STR for to hit and damage since Finesse allows either and not just DEX as dictated by darts being ranged weapons?

 

[tuxgeo]

Yeah, I was grasping at straws when trying to come up with a reason to give darts the finesses property. You're quite right that it doesn't make a whole lot of obvious sense.

 

[Skarsgard]

Making a dart finesse means you can use either strength or dex for damage and to hit. If it didn't have this rule you would be forced to use dex. It gives strength based fighters another ranged option.

 

[Forged Fury]

@CanadienneBacon

How big was the room Roscoe was in? I'm guessing small is 10x10? Let me know if the map looks right, I guessed at the placement. I don't have enough information yet to fill out the southern areas, I don't think, which is fine.

Gang: Here's the map of what we're looking at now, I believe. I put Guran in front of the door to check for traps/pick locks. Fighter types to the flanks and the armored Wizard to the rear.

 

[CanadienneBacon]

The door on Room 2 is one square to the west.

In Room 3, the open doorway is correctly placed and the room is 10 x 10, but I need you please tweak two other things about that room. First, the west wall should be moved to the east one square. Second, the easternmost wall of the room extends one square to the east. In other words, shift the entire room one square to the east and you'll have it.

Re: the hallway with the question marks, that is a 10'-long corridor that is 5' wide. There is a door down that corridor. The door is on the western side of the corridor, at the end of the corridor. The door is closed.

Re: the new west-east hallway (Hallway 2), it's 140' long. Hallway 2 terminates 20' after the question mark on the map you've posted above. At its terminus there is a 5' north-south corridor that heads south only. The party can probably also make out a new door in Hallway 2. This new door is 15' to the west of the corridor the party currently occupies. The new door is on the north side of Hallway 2.

Also, Forged Fury, why on earth are you posting today? It's the day before Fat Tuesday. I should think you'd be riding a float, drunk, and throwing beads to naked girls. Or drunk on mezcal, lying on a sidewalk in the Garden District. I know I was when I lived in NO.

 

[Forged Fury]

The door on Room 2 is one square to the west.

The closed door (the dotted line) or the open one?

In Room 3, the open doorway is correctly placed and the room is 10 x 10, but I need you please tweak two other things about that room. First, the west wall should be moved to the east one square. Second, the easternmost wall of the room extends one square to the east. In other words, shift the entire room one square to the east and you'll have it.

OK, that's what I needed to know. I figured there were only two possible ways to place it.

Re: the hallway with the question marks, that is a 10'-long corridor that is 5' wide. There is a door down that corridor. The door is on the western side of the corridor, at the end of the corridor. The door is closed.

Re: the new west-east hallway (Hallway 2), it's 140' long. Hallway 2 terminates 20' after the question mark on the map you've posted above. At its terminus there is a 5' north-south corridor that heads south only. The party can probably also make out a new door in Hallway 2. This new door is 15' to the west of the corridor the party currently occupies. The new door is on the north side of Hallway 2.

Will work on this in a little bit, I'm not sure I quite get it, but I'll update the map in my above post and we can go from there.

Also, Forged Fury, why on earth are you posting today? It's the day before Fat Tuesday. I should think you'd be riding a float, drunk, and throwing beads to naked girls. Or drunk on mezcal, lying on a sidewalk in the Garden District. I know I was when I lived in NO.

LOL, I ride in Endymion, so I did all that stuff on Saturday. I rarely take Monday and Tuesday off, it just depends. Glad I didn't do it this year because it's going to be raining a lot more than beads on Tuesday. The weather on Saturday, however, was ridiculously awesome. I've been riding for nearly 10 years and these were the biggest crowds I've ever seen.