D&D 5E 5e for teen game: need advice

BluSponge

Explorer
I'm strongly leaning towards using 5e for our library teen roleplaying program next year. But before I do, I have a few questions I really need answered.

1) Combat I've heard is faster than 3e and 4e, but not as fast as O/AD&D. Is this just because of hit point inflation? Where does combat bottleneck and is there any way to make it more efficient?

2) Does anyone have any tricks for speeding up character creation? I'm currently thinking having pre-filled character sheets based on classes, so the players just have to note race and background info. I intend to have pregens for late-comers and new players, but I really like giving the kids the freedom to make their own characters. Character advancement shouldn't be too bad, but the initial process is a bit time consuming, especially with limited numbers of rulebooks. So anything that can help speed things up would be EXTREMELY helpful.

Thanks,
Tom
 

log in or register to remove this ad

1: Roll a d20, if it's above 7 you win, otherwise you lose.

Really, if you make it any faster, it's going to be boring.
And if your going to skip the battles, you might want a different system then D&D.


2: Use the standard array.
 


I'm strongly leaning towards using 5e for our library teen roleplaying program next year.
Is this something you've done before with PF or 3.5 or some other game or edition of D&D? Or has the release of 5e inspired you to start this program for the first time?

But before I do, I have a few questions I really need answered.

1) Combat I've heard is faster than 3e and 4e, but not as fast as O/AD&D.
Sorta. The encounter guidelines are tuned to lower challenges and hps are lower relative to DPR (not just damage, but the likelihood of hitting), so individual combats last fewer rounds. But, you need more combats per 'day' to challenge PCs via resource attrition, and also to keep the classes reasonably 'balanced' if you're not going to be able to count on having the same players around the table for a full adventuring 'day' the system may end up working against you. . That is, indeed, a bit like AD&D. At low level, especially 1st, those fast combats can easily start with PCs dropping and end in character deaths or TPKs. That's also a bit like AD&D, though the tougher characters in AD&D tended to be tougher because of higher AC, often very hard for equally low-level monsters to hit, which is harder to achieve in 5e (instead, 5e PCs will tend to have the advantage in terms of DPR, spellcasting, and outnumbering the monsters).

BTW, you really want to avoid outnumbering the PCs in any 1st-level encounters you design for new players. They can be slow out the gate at obvious/taken-for-granted tactics like focus fire and resource management, and can easily be overwhelmed numerically. At higher levels hps and generous death's-door rules provide enough of a buffer, but at 1st, there's little margin for error.

Is this just because of hit point inflation?
5e's approach to hps - giving a HD and full CON bonus every level - gives PCs fewer hps at 1st level (particularly relative to 4e), but a lot more at much higher levels (particularly relative to AD&D). Adjusting combat speed by giving PCs more/fewer hps only affects the length of combats that end it TPKs.

Where does combat bottleneck and is there any way to make it more efficient?
Combat can bottleneck over rules confusion and particularly around spellcasting, but the DM is Empowered to make on-the-spot rulings to move things along, and should do so without hesitation. With any luck, the confusing rule/spell/whatever will be forgotten by the time the combat's over.

2) Does anyone have any tricks for speeding up character creation?
When introducing new players to the game, having a complete part already pre-generated is a good idea. You spend not time at all on character creation.

but I really like giving the kids the freedom to make their own characters. Character advancement shouldn't be too bad, but the initial process is a bit time consuming, especially with limited numbers of rulebooks. So anything that can help speed things up would be EXTREMELY helpful.
You can use arrays instead of rolling for stats, and go through the character sheet 'line by line' with the whole group, filling in stats, proficiency, backgrounds, and the like. Then explain neo-Vancian (prep & slot) casting to the characters that have it (Clerics, Wizards, Druids, &c), then any other class abilities shared by multiple characters, then go around the table explaining remaining class abilities (including Sorc & Warlock casting). Still won't be fast, but you should get all the basics down before attention starts to wander...
 

Pre-gens are good try and "bulk fill" the char sheets with everyone at once and hope no one picks a caster lol. also array away and perhaps cut out feats and mcing.

Combate bottle necks around indecisiveness try and get everyone to think beforehand specifically casters about what to do and try and keep "discussing tactics" down limit it to what you could realistically say in 6seconds.
 

Is this something you've done before with PF or 3.5 or some other game or edition of D&D? Or has the release of 5e inspired you to start this program for the first time?

No, I've been running the program now for around 8 years. We meet twice a month and are one of the longest running and consistently best attended youth programs (we average between 8 and 12 teens each session). I've used Savage Worlds throughout. We've touched on 50 Fathoms, Deadlands, and All for One: Regime Diabolique, along with a couple of my own devise. But this time around the kids specifically requested a dungeon crawl themed game. Now, I could probably use SW for that too, but I think switching gears to a system better suited to the resource management that is the hallmark of the dungeon crawl experience.

So I figure I have three solid options here:
B/X D&D (quick, simple, too the point, and easily expandable).
DnD 5e (current edition, widely available, best starting point for players new to the hobby)
Some Frankenstein Monster of the two combined (still an option I'm keeping on the table)

As to character creation:
I usually keep a stable of pregenerated characters available for new players and players who forget their character folder. But for the regulars, I enjoy giving them a chance to create their own characters. SW is pretty damn quick — I can whip up a character myself in about 5 minutes with no real effort. For the kids, it takes about an hour to go through the steps as a group. We did a test run with 5e (minus equipment) with 4 teens and it took about an hour using the Quick Builds. We only had one copy of the basic rules, and most of the time was spent dictating what the player needed to write down on his or her character sheet. The rolling part (Abilities, Personality, Ideal, etc.) was all fun!

Tom
 

But this time around the kids specifically requested a dungeon crawl themed game. Now, I could probably use SW for that too, but I think switching gears to a system better suited to the resource management that is the hallmark of the dungeon crawl experience.
I'm not sure 5E is a better choice than B/X if you want heavy resource management.
 

No, I've been running the program now for around 8 years. We meet twice a month and are one of the longest running and consistently best attended youth programs (we average between 8 and 12 teens each session). I've used Savage Worlds throughout. But this time around the kids specifically requested a dungeon crawl themed game. Now, I could probably use SW for that too
You could, and it might be the way to go.

The main advantage of D&D would that you can direct anyone interested in playing more to AL.

but I think switching gears to a system better suited to the resource management that is the hallmark of the dungeon crawl experience.
There's certainly some of that in 5e, though a little of it here and there is optional. Fine if you're still reading from the only copy of the rules - which, really, 5e works pretty with just the DM having access to the rules - but could be confusing if everyone's reading them for themselves...

I usually keep a stable of pregenerated characters available for new players and players who forget their character folder. But for the regulars, I enjoy giving them a chance to create their own characters. SW is pretty damn quick — I can whip up a character myself in about 5 minutes with no real effort. For the kids, it takes about an hour to go through the steps as a group.
Going through chargen as a group works better when each character follows a similar chargen procedure. 5e classes are designed to be more mechanically distinct, so chargen & level-up aren't entirely the kind of thing you can do as a group. FWIW.

It sounds like you've been doing fine, and a change of system probably won't make a difference.
 

1) Combat I've heard is faster than 3e and 4e, but not as fast as O/AD&D. Is this just because of hit point inflation? Where does combat bottleneck and is there any way to make it more efficient?
Here's a great article about pacing combat: http://theangrygm.com/manage-combat-like-a-dolphin/

tl;dr: One of the biggest bottlenecks is when players take too long to plan out their turn. AngryGM's solution: Make the players declare their actions immediately when it's their turn. If they take too long to decide what to do, they lose their turn (automatically taking the Dodge action and not moving). This is a life-or-death struggle; you should be paying attention and figuring out what to do during other players' turns.

There's also the standard advice about ending an encounter as soon as the outcome becomes obvious. No need to play out the last few rounds if the PCs have clearly won the fight.

2) Does anyone have any tricks for speeding up character creation? I'm currently thinking having pre-filled character sheets based on classes, so the players just have to note race and background info. I intend to have pregens for late-comers and new players, but I really like giving the kids the freedom to make their own characters. Character advancement shouldn't be too bad, but the initial process is a bit time consuming, especially with limited numbers of rulebooks. So anything that can help speed things up would be EXTREMELY helpful.

I imagine it would speed things up quite a bit if you had handouts instead of sharing rulebooks. You could print out a one-page summary of the character creation chapter, and handouts summarizing the 1st-level features of each class.

For 5e in particular, you can easily strip out many of the steps of character creation. You don't need Personality Traits. You don't even need backgrounds at all. You don't technically need races. You could remove skills. You could use only Basic classes. You could deal out random spell cards instead of letting the players choose their spells.
 

1. Use ability array or point buy(it's not that complicated)

2. no feats

3. no multiclassing

4. limit casters to: warlock, sorcerer, ranger, paladin. Few spells know, fewer memorization.

5. drop the background mechanics. give everyone 3 extra skill and 3 extra tools/languages.
 

Remove ads

Top