D&D 5E 5e Hardcore: Monster Manual

dave2008

Legend
Great thread so far, (other than the usual squabbling discussions, which at least are fun to read. :) ). I'll be definitely using some of those Ogres in the near future.

The one Ogre from 4E i found particularly memorable was the Juggernaut - it's knock down, then kick along the ground attack made for very enjoyable combat. My players talked about that for ages. I've been looking at adapting that to 5E.

Here's my small contribution - I've been upgrading Gnolls in my game, as both the MM and Volo's Guide ones are both a bit underpowered and rather boring: ...


I made Rampage trigger when they reduce someone to less than half HP (when they bloody someone , basically), increased their speed to 40ft so they're as fast as they look, and gave them +2 Damage while below half HP, so to represent their savage blood fury nature. All very much like the 4E Gnoll.

I added "Disconcerting Laughter" to Hyenas (allies have advantage against enemies within 5ft of a Hyena) and tend add in a bunch in any Gnoll fight. It increases the accuracy of the Gnolls, and gives the PCs the tactical choice of either attacking the weak Hyenas, or the now more accurate Gnolls.

I'm glad you like it and thank you for the contributions. I will get these added this weekend.
 

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dave2008

Legend
Ok, I have updated the ogres again to pick of some of [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION] 's comments. This is the last I can post until the weekend as I have a big deadline tomorrow.
 

MostlyDm

Explorer
Dave I may disagree with some of the design philosophies involved in your project, but I wanted to reiterate my respect for you. You have a lot of really creative ideas, some of which I think are downright excellent. And you have been very reasonable and open-minded about addressing criticism. Kudos, man. Good luck with your deadline.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Dave I may disagree with some of the design philosophies involved in your project, but I wanted to reiterate my respect for you. You have a lot of really creative ideas, some of which I think are downright excellent. And you have been very reasonable and open-minded about addressing criticism. Kudos, man. Good luck with your deadline.

This goes for me as well. I have a lot of respect for someone who is willing to put in an effort to address any shortcomings they see, for not just them, but for others who might share the same feelings, and put out a solution. it's more than just complaining, it's putting the effort in to fix it, and doing so in a way that isn't constantly insulting the designers in the process.

I wish you the best of luck on this project Dave, and I'd be very interested in it should you put it on the DM's guild.
 

This goes for me as well. I have a lot of respect for someone who is willing to put in an effort to address any shortcomings they see, for not just them, but for others who might share the same feelings, and put out a solution. it's more than just complaining, it's putting the effort in to fix it, and doing so in a way that isn't constantly insulting the designers in the process.

I wish you the best of luck on this project Dave, and I'd be very interested in it should you put it on the DM's guild.

Oh yeah, if you put this up on DMs' Guild and message me about it I will guarantee you both a purchase* and a review. I believe DM's Guild needs more high-quality stuff and I'm willing to support it with my own time and energy.



[*] Under reasonable assumptions. The computer programmer in me feels compelled to note that I would not purchase this hypothetical product for $9999.99. :)
 

Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] Thoughts on trolls? They're one of the monsters I seem to use in my games, and also are sort of one-trick ponies. Any subsequent battles with trolls after the first combat are likely to end in judicious application of fire. Narratively, D&D lore on trolls has been kind of scant. And while VOLO'S provides variety for several of the more common humanoid monsters, there's just one Troll stat block in the MM.

I'll frame some of my thoughts and strategies for making trolls more interesting...

First, there's something about the 4e troll art that I find appealing. Artwork from 5e, 3e, and AD&D paints trolls as having very little facial expression - dumb brutes with no expression beyond a grimace or a snarl. What's interesting about the 4e art IMO is there's expression of malign cunning, a dim evil light in their brooding eyes and lips pulled back into an almost shark-like grin. To me, that speaks to the fairytale/mythological origins of trolls. They're just smarter than ogres after all (Int 7 vs. ogres 5). An ogre may be subjugated by stronger evil monsters, serve reliably as a mercenary, or be outwitted with a simple ruse...but a troll not so much. Ogres may smash you up out of stupid curiosity and hunger...but for a troll there's something truly malicious there.

So how does a troll's appetite (one of their signature traits) compare to other "hungry monsters" like ogres, hill giants, and ghouls? What makes a troll's appetite unique?

Ogres play with their food, essentially, chasing them and tormenting them and asking them how to best season elves-in-a-blanket. They eat people because they find people tasty. People usually kill ogres unless the civilization is evil in which case they may be made into a mercenary force.
Hill Giants aren't picky, going for the easiest pickings like herds of animals first. Eating is just what an idle hill giant does, perhaps in macabre imitation of other culture's meal time traditions. They are just hungry, and don't think about who their eating might hurt. Hill giants are given a wide berth, but if one wanders into the lowlands, people will either organize a giant-hunting party or seek to "go over the giant's head" to a more senior giant in the Ordning to get the hill giant out of their hair.
Ghouls are ravenous and go into a blood frenzy like sharks, biting on the fingers of the living, and feasting on dead bodies right then and there unless dissuaded. People don't tolerate ghouls and kill them.

Trolls, in my way of imagining them, are a bit more about the psychology of their meal. Their appetites are "horrific" not in that they desire human or demihuman flesh like ogres, but that they crave specific things like "marrow from a blushing maiden full of fear" or "the knee-bone of Saint what's-his-name who trespassed in our caves." When not hunting animals, they want to be given tribute of food or manipulate humans/demihumans to their downfall in the troll's maw. Trolls keep that eternal craving for flesh just ever so slightly in check...like they're playing a wicked game...hoping that the humans/demihumans they're interacting will slip up and give the troll the "excuse" it wants to eat them alive. Why not just kill outright? Two reasons: (1) Because trolls are smart enough to know that humans/demihumans command that magical substance known as fire, and (2) Trolls enjoy the wicked thrill of mounting dread as a creature realizes the troll now has an "excuse" to eat them. And humans/demihumans, for their part, know how dangerous a hungry pack of trolls can be, so either give them a wide berth, hire adventures to kill them, or set up barely tolerated offerings of tribute (hence the "bridge troll" phenomenon). At least, that's how I run trolls!

Brainstorms on trolls that could influence stat blocks...
  • Trolls regenerate and have a weakness which undermines that regeneration, like the ones in Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions. However, in D&D there are several variants which have a different weakness than fire (e.g. desert trolls being vulnerable to water/acid).
  • Their regenerative ability doesn't just lead to the Loathsome Limbs optional trait; it can also lead to trolls mutating. In The Gates of Firestorm Peak troll mutates have a trait that causes them to regrow unpredictable body parts after sustaining a certain amount of damage. Definitely sounds like another sidebar optional trait akin to Loathsome Limbs.
  • Trolls adapt to every environment imaginable, leading to many varieties from ice trolls to desert trolls.
  • They live in caves or "trollholes" with entrances that are basically covered pit traps.
  • A troll pack will be led by a dominant female who acts as shaman/chieftain and has 7th level spellcasting ability (from the priest spheres of Charm, Divination, Sun (Darkness only), and Weather). She maintains her position by regularly fighting for it, and has an especially fierce appetite for sentient flesh.
  • Some trolls worship Vaprak the Destroyer, the ogre deity.
  • Trolls are always on the look-out for an opportunity to get more food, so dropping supplies can be a way for PCs to distract a troll from chasing them. To the troll mindset, this is just "tribute" by another name.
  • They don't speak the pure Giant tongue, instead speaking "Trollspeak" which is a polyglot of Common, Giant, Goblin, and Orc. Moreover, "Trollspeak" is highly regional so not all trolls will be mutually intelligible even to each other.
  • Their green blood can be used to make potions of healing.
 

dave2008

Legend
[MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] Thoughts on trolls? They're one of the monsters I seem to use in my games, and also are sort of one-trick ponies. Any subsequent battles with trolls after the first combat are likely to end in judicious application of fire. Narratively, D&D lore on trolls has been kind of scant. And while VOLO'S provides variety for several of the more common humanoid monsters, there's just one Troll stat block in the MM.

Yes, I think this project would be a great resource for more troll love. The need it!

I'll frame some of my thoughts and strategies for making trolls more interesting...

I don't get this feel when I think trolls & D&D. But that is one of the reasons in 30 years of playing I have never used a troll! I much prefer your approach to trolls than the wafer-thin approach taken in D&D traditionally.

Brainstorms on trolls that could influence stat blocks...
  • Trolls regenerate and have a weakness which undermines that regeneration, like the ones in Poul Anderson's Three Hearts and Three Lions. However, in D&D there are several variants which have a different weakness than fire (e.g. desert trolls being vulnerable to water/acid).
  • Their regenerative ability doesn't just lead to the Loathsome Limbs optional trait; it can also lead to trolls mutating. In The Gates of Firestorm Peak troll mutates have a trait that causes them to regrow unpredictable body parts after sustaining a certain amount of damage. Definitely sounds like another sidebar optional trait akin to Loathsome Limbs.
  • Trolls adapt to every environment imaginable, leading to many varieties from ice trolls to desert trolls.
  • They live in caves or "trollholes" with entrances that are basically covered pit traps.
  • A troll pack will be led by a dominant female who acts as shaman/chieftain and has 7th level spellcasting ability (from the priest spheres of Charm, Divination, Sun (Darkness only), and Weather). She maintains her position by regularly fighting for it, and has an especially fierce appetite for sentient flesh.
  • Some trolls worship Vaprak the Destroyer, the ogre deity.
  • Trolls are always on the look-out for an opportunity to get more food, so dropping supplies can be a way for PCs to distract a troll from chasing them. To the troll mindset, this is just "tribute" by another name.
  • They don't speak the pure Giant tongue, instead speaking "Trollspeak" which is a polyglot of Common, Giant, Goblin, and Orc. Moreover, "Trollspeak" is highly regional so not all trolls will be mutually intelligible even to each other.
  • Their green blood can be used to make potions of healing.

These are great. I like the idea of expanding on the effects of their regeneration abilities. I see lots of potential there. I really like the shaman troll idea as well, I can work with that! I've always thought of trolls as worshiping Vaprak, ever since Deities and Demigods picture of Vaprak was basically a very loathsome troll. I could see a priest of Vaprak or a chosen / blessed by Vaprak. I really like the "tribute" idea and healing potion, but I assume you don't intend these to actually be in the statblock, just the description.

Man, I wish I didn't have a deadline tomorrow! I have some many monsters to create!
 


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