D&D 5E 5e: how CC spells affect monster's CR?

[Zandos]

Hi, I tried googling it but can't find answer anywhere.

In 5e if I add spellcasting to enemy it seems ony affecting its CR if its a DPS spell.
I'm working on an entry level adventure, and I want to include enemy throwing CC to teach players that not all magic need to deal damage to be valuable, but when I make a level 3 kobold sorc it ends with exactly the same CR (1/8) as its hd1 muggle kobold buddies, despite beign able to sleep entire party and hold 1 of them, and since its not damage spell, it shouldn't count.

Is there anything I'm missing?

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Just use the stats for the Kobold Scale Sorcerer and sub in whichever spells you want.

 

[Xeviat]

What I tend to do is factor in the spells as damage spells and then pretend that things will be fair if they use their spells for other things. If it's a more support caster, I pretend I'm using Healing Word for their 3 highest spell slots and then cantrips/weapon attacks for their damage.

But, it's possible that an illusionist kobold might be a less challenging fight than an evoker kobold.

 

[dave2008]

I agree basically with @Xeviat The DMG gives a damage per level of spell table. Use that to determine the damage of a non-damage spell of a particular level and use that in your calculations.

 

[Krachek]

Level 1 party are very fragile vs 1st level spells.

 

[Zandos]

Thanks all for replies

 

[NotAYakk]

The idea of spell substitution as not changing CR is ok to a first approximation; but be aware that optimization of play or spell selection will break CR.

Like, changing a diviner with only basically divination spells to a blaster could swing its CR massively.

 

[Stoutstien]

Don't put too much thought into it. CR is at best a rough outline of how challenging or deadly any particular npc is. As a general rule be wary of anything that denies action on the players part. Reducing options and interfering with their options is fine but man does it blow to wait 5 minutes for your turn and get skipped.
there's actually quite a few spells that aren't so great from the players perspective but are awesome from the DMs. Spells like slow and ray of enfeeblement are dramatic and scary but still allow the players to act.

 

[NotAYakk]

XP of monsters is very roughly (DPR*HP)*(1+(AC+ATK-13)/10)/5.

CR is like XP^.7 ish (I forgot what power is best fit), times some constant. The .7 power (or whatever it is) represents how 5e compares 5 monsters with total HP 100 and DPR 50 with 1 monster with total HP 100 and DPR 50 (between fireballs and focus fire, many small is weaker than one big). Amusingly, the XP multiplier for large groups almost exactky does the same thing as the piwer going from XP to CR does.

For things that aren't Damage or HP, 5e has a bunch of fudge factors.

You can see the holes in the fudge factors with, for example, intellect devourers.