(5e) IMMORTAL RULES

dave2008

Legend
What do you think of the Epic Level handbook over on dmguild?

I didn't know it was there - I'll check it out. From the write up it looks like it is just player side changes and on top of that is advancing all of the classes to lvl 30. Personally, I don't want my epic characters to advance further in levels so I think that author and I have philosophical differences with what constitutes "epic." I've chosen to expand the epic boon system presented in the DMG to allow players to make character that can challenge the greater gods. That being said, there are probably some good ideas in there so I'll pick it up. Thank you for letting me know!
 
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dave2008

Legend
What do you think of the Epic Level handbook over on dmguild?

I just purchased and did a quick drive thru. I like its simplicity, each class fits on one page, and seems fairly well done. It would take a lot of time to determine if the classes are balanced and that doesn't really interest me (as noted before i prefer epic characters that don't have classes), so no comment on that. Similar with the feats - though I find those, and the spell advancement the most interesting and useful for my project.

Personally, my stance is a mortal can reach level 20 and that is about it. You can go a little beyond with some epic boons, but to go beyond that you need to ascend to immortality. Thus, I guess I am more interested in an "Immortals Handbook" vs. an "Epic Level Handbook."

One negative is that the resolution on the PDF is low and the artwork doesn't really fit the subject matter. Otherwise fairly interesting, thank you for letting me know about it.
 
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Faenor

Explorer
Ok, thank you. We've playtested some of the 30-40 level monsters you've done vs some characters with pretty much maxed out epic boons plus the best magic items from the dmg. Two paladins hasted with holy avengers. Cleric and sorcerer. Found that the paladins were running out of slots for smites and couldn't keep up with regen.maybe a class that doesn't run out of steam - rogue plus fighter. Maybe need 6 characters, but that's a lot to run and there are only two of us
 

dave2008

Legend
Ok, thank you. We've playtested some of the 30-40 level monsters you've done vs some characters with pretty much maxed out epic boons plus the best magic items from the dmg. Two paladins hasted with holy avengers. Cleric and sorcerer. Found that the paladins were running out of slots for smites and couldn't keep up with regen.maybe a class that doesn't run out of steam - rogue plus fighter. Maybe need 6 characters, but that's a lot to run and there are only two of us

Cool! Glad to here someone is giving them a try. How did to go? Sounds like it was a battle of attrition. How many rounds was the combat(s)? Also was that maxed with the DMG epic boons? Have you tried with the additional levels provided by the 'Epic Level Handbook"? I would be interested to know how that worked, as I am tempted to make my work quasi compatible with it. It seems pretty well done and would be an interesting alternative to my system.
 

Faenor

Explorer
It was great fun. We saw after just 3-5 rounds against your tiamat (not in lair and solo) that the maths were just not going to add up. Burning hard with 3 attacks per round and maxed smites, the damage was not going to keep up with regen. We used your epic boons, maxed, so mostly 20-30 ability scores, immunities and resistances. We'll be giving the Epic handbook options a try next.
 

dave2008

Legend
It was great fun. We saw after just 3-5 rounds against your tiamat (not in lair and solo) that the maths were just not going to add up. Burning hard with 3 attacks per round and maxed smites, the damage was not going to keep up with regen. We used your epic boons, maxed, so mostly 20-30 ability scores, immunities and resistances. We'll be giving the Epic handbook options a try next.

Awesome - good to hear. At some point I will get to complete this project, but until after I jet most if not all of my epic monsters updated. Let me know how it goes with epic levels.
 


dave2008

Legend
I have started adding details to the Epic Spells section, post #9. I have also added spell descriptions for several level 10, 11, & 12 Necromancy spells. More to come!
 



ClickerHero2971

First Post
Definitely using this and your bestiary when the party I'm DMing for gets this late game. One thing I'm not sure about though. Are there any class restrictions on Epic and Elder Spells, or can anyone with enough QP to buy them get them? Also, do you need spell slots for these levels and if so, how do you get them?
 

dave2008

Legend
Definitely using this and your bestiary when the party I'm DMing for gets this late game. One thing I'm not sure about though. Are there any class restrictions on Epic and Elder Spells, or can anyone with enough QP to buy them get them? Also, do you need spell slots for these levels and if so, how do you get them?

I'm still working out the details; however, there are epic boons for adding innate casting or spellcasting to a character. No class restrictions. If you spend the QP to gain the required epic boons you are good to go.
 

ClickerHero2971

First Post
I'm still working out the details; however, there are epic boons for adding innate casting or spellcasting to a character. No class restrictions. If you spend the QP to gain the required epic boons you are good to go.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. The party I'm DMing for aren't anywhere near this point yet, but I just wanted to understand it well before I got there.
 

dave2008

Legend
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. The party I'm DMing for aren't anywhere near this point yet, but I just wanted to understand it well before I got there.

FYI, there are two epic character options on DMs Guild and I have found at least one on Reddit. I can email you the Reddit one if you want.
 




dave2008

Legend
When do you think the next update for this will come out? I am quite interested to see where this will go.

I don't have a set date, but I'm definitely getting the itch to get back to this. My plan was to finish of the 1st drafts of my 5e Epic Monster Updates and then get back to this thread. My best guess would be to return fully to this project in 6-10 months, but I really hope I can make it back quicker than that.
 

synergy2

First Post
Just an idea, but perhaps consider adding another table to the Epic Weapons for dexterity based characters? As it stands right now, an epic fighter is useless if he isn't using strength since the strength weapons completely outclass any dexterity weapons by a long shot.

I'd imagine the table could use the exact same format and that the weapons would just be lighter and sharper rather than harder and heavier? Maybe less base damage but more critical strike chance or something? Also to balance out the AC bonus you get automatically from dexterity. You don't want dexterity outshining strength but you also don't want dexterity fighters to never be able to properly use an epic weapon.

Just my 2 cents!
 

Foxydono

First Post
Before I knew of this thread, I made my own epic boons. This was partly because I thought the boons from the DMG were kinda limited. I know you already made your own boon system, but perhaps you can draw some inspiration from the boons I made.

Boons:
1. Hit Me Baby: Gain an extra 40 hit points
2. Cause More is Better: Gain max hit points every level (reroll if already rolled)
3. High Magic: Gain an extra spell slot. You can have only one 9 th level extra slot, two 8 th level slots,
three 7 th level slots etc. Reroll if you don’t have access to spells.
4. Like a Fish in the Ocean: Gain Swimming Speed equal to your walking speed and you gain the
ability to breath underwater (reroll if you can already swim)
5. No Mountain High Enough: Increase or decrease your size by one size category by one, you
choose (larger: increase your range by 5 feet and gain +4 damage on your melee attacks, shorter:
increase your AC by +2)
6. Raging: Gain an extra attack when you use the attack action (reroll if caster)
7. Power Up: increase a stat of your choice by +2, or two stats by +1 (maximum of 30)
8. Feed Me: Choose a feat of your choice
9. Reflective Shield: Gain resistance to damage from spells
10. Toughened Up: Gain resistance to melee attacks
11. Flying High: Gain flying speed equal to your walking speed (reroll if you can already fly)
12. Road Runner: Gain +30 base speed. This counts to all modes of natural movement speed if you
have it (burrowing, flying, swimming and walking). In addition, you can make a dash action as a
free action once per short or long rest
13. Snake Eyes: Gain advantage to spells and magical effects
14. Fire Walk with Me: Gain Immunity to an elemental type of your choice
15. Tuned In: Gain an extra attunement slot
16. Cheat Death: you automatically stabilize when reaching 0 hit points
17. All Seeing Eye: Gain True Sight 120 feet
18. Who is the Mole: Gain Burrowing speed equal to your walking speed (reroll if you can already
burrow)
19. Resilience: gain resistance to non-magical damage if you roll this again gain immunity instead
20. Skill Monkey: You are proficient in all skills. If you roll this again you gain expertise in all skills.
21. Especially for you: You get an ability depending on your class. If you are multiclass you may
choose from which class you want the ability, but you cannot take the same class ability twice:
- Wizard: you may cast all the spells you know. You don’t have to prepare spells anymore.
- Fighter: You gain an increased critical damage range of two
- Rogue: Gain +5d6 sneak attack dice
- Barbarian: Gain an additional 4 Strength and 4 Constitution with a maximum of 30
- Ranger: You gain 4 extra spells known. In addition, you become a full spell caster for the
purpose of determining your spell slots and you may pick a 6 th , 7 th , 8 th and 9 th level spell from
the cleric spell list. These spells count towards your total number of spells known. Wisdom is
your casting modifier for these spells.
- Warlock: Double your known spell slots
- Sorcerer: Gain 10 additional sorcery points
- Bard: Choose an additional spell of your choice from any spell list that you can cast. You can
cast this spell. In addition, your inspiration die and song of rest now count as D20 instead of
D12
- Monk: Gain 10 extra KI points
- Cleric: You can use the divine intervention ability once per seven days without fail. If you
already have the feature, you can now use it twice per seven days.
- Druid: You can Transform into any type of creature. In addition, you can choose to do this
with your normal CR + 5, you can only do this once per short or long rest.
- Paladin: The range of your auras is doubled, in addition every spell slot you smite deals an
additional 1d8 damage
22. Spell Mastery: Choose a first level spell. You can cast it without expending a spell slot. If you roll
this again, choose a second level spell and if you roll it a third time a third level spell. If you
cannot cast spells or if you roll this a fourth time, reroll.
23. Children of the Night: As an action you can become invisible in dim light or darkness.
24. Rise of the Phoenix: If you die, you instead return to live with 50% of your maximum hit points. If
you die again within the same die. You are permanently dead, no death saving throws allowed.
25. Boon of Faith: You can change your faith by redoing your own turn. You may use this ability once
per long rest and you must do so at the end of your turn.
26. Curse of the Faithless: You can force another creature to redo his turn. There is a 50% chance
that the creature will do or attack someone else. You may use this ability once per long rest and
you must do so at the end of the creatures turn.
27. I am Invincible: Any damage from a source or creature in a specific round is reduced to 0. You
must finish a long rest before you can use this ability again.
28. Dimensional Travel: You can use the plane shift spell as an action once per short rest, targeting
yourself only.
29. Quick recovery: use can use a bonus action to regain half your hit point maximum. You can use
this again after you finish a long rest.
30. I am Legend: You gain a legendary resistance (to a maximum of three)
31. Lucky Strike: once per short rest you may roll a D20 to any ability check, saving throw or attack
roll you make.
32. Magic Lore: You may prepare spells from any spell list (reroll if you cannot cast spells)
33. Body Perfect: You don’t need to sleep, eat or drink and you no longer age (also immune to aging
effects) or die of old age. Reroll if undead or monk.
34. Feeling Lucky Punk: Increase your spell save DC by two (casters only), you may only get this
ability twice.
35. Bully: you have as much opportunity attacks as your dexterity modifier (less than +2 Dexterity or
if caster you may reroll). You may use an opportunity attack against creatures that enter your
reach and you have advantage on opportunity attacks
36. Mind Black: You are immune to psychic damage, any effect that would sense its emotions or
read its thoughts, Divination Spells, mind control and the Charmed/sleep condition.
37. Check Mate: You gain advantage in (ability) checks and saving throws of (str, con, dex, wis, cha,
int, roll d6). Reroll if you already have advantage on certain checks.
38. Natural caster: You are able to use Metamagic and you start every day with 1d12 sorcery points.
These points cannot be carried over to the next day. If you are already a sorcerer, these count as
extra sorcery points. Reroll if you are not a caster
39. Free as a bird: Your movement is unaffected by difficult terrain, and spells and other magical effects can neither reduce your speed or movement. You cannot be stunned, paralyzed or restrained. You may spend half your movement to escape from nonmagical restraints, such as manacles or when grappled. Finally, underwater or being in the air imposes no penalties on your
movement or attacks.
40. Choose one of the abilities below
 

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